For the Love of the Map

All Things Multi-Intensity with Kat EP39

• For the Love of the Map • Episode 39

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In this episode, choreographer Kat returns to pull back the curtain on what it takes to build workout maps that are designed, not generated. Every jab, duck, and target is placed by hand inside a VR headset, no AI, no automation, just human intuition and deep musicality.

This episode gives you a deeper appreciation for the choreography behind your favorite workouts and how feedback from players like you shapes the future of Supernatural.

Rate your workouts, share your thoughts - the team is listening.

Want more from Kat? Check out her first episode here: Letting the Force Flow Through You:  Supernatural Choreographer Katrin Auch EP29

Visit the website at: https://fortheloveofthemap.buzzsprout.com

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MJ:

How do you know if a low is a low, a medium is a medium and a high is a high?

Kat:

Rate them, send in comments, like if you're not happy with something, send it in and be as specific as you can with what you are happy with or not happy with, just because it makes a difference. If you care enough to send in comments, they do pay attention.

MJ:

You gave us a spoiler a little bit ago about your first pros-only boxing map coming out.

Kat:

Yeah, we get fights, but that doesn't happen very often. In fact, there's only been twice or three times that that's happened at all.

MJ:

Please tell me it's a dance battle, like you guys get on a Zoom call and dance it out together to see who gets the workout. Is AI helping you guys map for multi-intensity? Absolutely not.

Kat:

AI has never been a part of the mapping process. Trust me, I would sometimes like there to be a shortcut, because we literally do still do all of our mapping in VR. We are in headset in an environment placing the targets. This is probably going to let a lot of people know what my maps are. I'll hear a song and my husband laughs at me now because I'll be out in the world and I'll hear a song and I'll be like and he's just laughing at me.

Kat:

This is another thing that has kind of changed, because it used to be you didn't cross arms. Some people have been like, well, it's not a different experience. You know, playing it on the different levels it's like it's not supposed to be a different experience. This is one story, and I'm telling you one story.

MJ:

Welcome back to another episode of For the Love of the Map, where we chat all things supernatural choreography and the joy in movement. I'm your host, mj, and I'm super excited to have a special guest Second time on the podcast choreographer Kat, back in the house. Welcome Hi, I'm glad to be back. We are so excited to have you back now that we've made the rounds of of all the choreography team.

Kat:

Got through all of our crazy personalities.

MJ:

Yes, yes, and and I can see, now that I know you guys and have gotten to know you guys, your mapping styles come clear to me. Now it's like it makes sense. But when you guys trick me, like when you use things that I think Justin would use, or Justin uses things that you would use, I'm like, oh man, I think I got it.

Kat:

Yeah, well, the thing is you have to understand, we all steal from each other because it's you know, it's we all play. You know we'll play each other's maps and we're like, oh, oh, I really like that. So then then I'm going to use it and I'm going to go running with it for a while and then somebody else is going to be like you know, so we'd like pass things off and take turns. That's amazing.

MJ:

I love that I invited you here today. Specifically, I would love to chat all things multi-intensity. As you know, the community sort of has a lot of questions about multi-intensity now that it's being a controversial subject. Yes, yes, yes. So I thought why don't we just bring Kat on and we can talk all about it, answer some of the community's questions and, with that said, I'm just going to go right into it. Sure, go for it and go with. The biggest thing Is AI helping you guys map for multi-intensity.

Kat:

Absolutely not. Ai has never been part of the mapping process. Trust me, I would sometimes like there to be a shortcut, because we literally do still do all of our mapping in VR. We are in headset, in an environment, placing the targets on the beats where we want them. There is no shortcut to that. We have asked. It's like hey, it would be really nice if we could do something like not in a headset, because I love VR, I love the freedom of VR, but it's a lot all day. You know, like being in a headset all day is just a lot. So, yeah, I would love to have a desktop version where I could maybe, you know, jot down some ideas and then go and play it in VR and see how it works. But we do not have that tool yet. That is not something that they have given us. So, yeah, it is all done. It is all done by hand. Every level is done by hand.

Kat:

I mean when I say that there is a lot of copying and pasting going on, like we do so from the beginning of time. And this is like you know, like multi-intensity is like ooh, this is big, this is new. It's like well, when they first started, there was that open intensity thing where you would like level up and level down, and that proved to be problematic and it basically there was an issue with it where people were getting caught in a level that was a little too high for them and it was. They weren't enjoying it, but they couldn't. It didn't go back down like it would, they were just stuck in this one place. That wasn't working.

Kat:

At least that's what I was told, because I came on after that we went to single intensity, but people are acting like oh, you know, like every map that we've ever created has been a fresh, new map. And it's not true because we would like if, say, benny had done a high of a Beach Boys song and I got that Beach Boys song and it was a medium Beach Boys song. And I got that Beach Boys song and it was a medium. I wouldn't necessarily, unless I really didn't like what Benny did or I heard something else that I wanted to do. I would take Benny's song version, copy it into a medium and then I would adjust it. So it was a medium and it would feel like a medium. So we've been doing level ups and level downs forever and in fact I think when asia started.

Kat:

That is how she learned to map is um you know, like they've tried a lot of like training is a lot of different ways. We've tried training to see what the best way is, but asia's method of training was, um, that she was doing level downs for a long time, so she would be in the maps and learning how the maps worked and level them down to a lower level, so that that's been around forever. So basically, all we're doing now is we are, um, taking those maps and doing it all at once, instead of doing it two months later, doing two, three months later.

MJ:

Yeah, yeah. So when you get a workout assigned to you or you pick a, however that works internally for you guys and you're like, okay, this is multi-intensity, do you listen to the music and then figure out what intensity you want to start mapping first, do you look in the library and go is there already a map for this in one of these intensity levels? How is that process for you?

Kat:

It's a little. I think everybody's going to have a slightly different thing as of how we get maps assigned to us. I think we've talked about this before, but we have a pick list and we still use the pick list and basically that's. You know, it'll show the name of the workout and then all the songs in it and if it's something that you're interested in doing, you put your name on and you know, like if you really love it, you put your name on with a heart, say I really, really want this, and then if, like, five people have their name up with a heart, then we get fights. But that doesn't happen. In fact, there's only like been twice or three times that that's happened at all.

MJ:

Please tell me it's a dance battle.

Kat:

Like you guys get on a Zoom call and dance it out together to see who gets the workout. No, it was like when we first started it. We decided that we needed to have a method of doing it. So we basically at one point rolled D20s and established an order and the person who was at the top of the list, if they could make a call and say I want that song At that point it really was that song, because we weren't doing full workouts yet and so people could call things that song. At that point it really was that song, because we weren't doing full workouts yet and so people could call things that way.

Kat:

And Benny was unfortunate and at the bottom of the list, because once you used your thing you would go to the bottom of the list but you could lose your place in line by calling it. You know, like, I want that. Well, okay, that's fine. You go to the end of the list and then you know whoever is at the top of the list gets priority. The problem was benny just stayed at the bottom of the list and kept calling things and nobody else was willing to lose their place in the list. So yeah, um, we don't do that method anymore we because we don't and we haven't really needed uh.

Kat:

So, uh, yeah, we, we put our names on the songs we want. So, and there's always, you know some, there's 90% of the time it'll come to somebody who wants it. There's a few times that does a set list, doesn't immediately, uh, resonate, resonate.

Kat:

Thank you, I was like I was there, but it wasn't right there, Resonate with a choreographer, you know like a particular choreographer. So but the funny thing is is a lot of times if you get assigned something that maybe you didn't want, you know not, not you didn't want but you didn't sign up for, you end up kind of liking it anyway, like you'll get in there because our curator does such a fabulous job that you get in there and you're like, oh, yeah, okay, yeah, I see, I see I didn't know the song, but now I know, yeah, I got you, now I get it, this is good, now I get it. So once you get that, and yeah, I listen to it sometimes, a lot of times I know most of the music. If I don't know the music, I do listen to it through a few times. Times that I will go look up videos sometimes, because if there is movement associated with the video, it's fun to bring that in.

Kat:

I will also look and see what has been done on that, like if there and it's mainly because there's a lot of work, you know we're doing a lot of work so if there is already like a map that you know, like a map in one of those levels, or even a already a multi intensity map that's already done, then I'm gonna jump in and I'm gonna play it and I'm like usually I mean all my co-workers do really good work, so usually I'll get in and I'll be like, oh, that's great. If it maybe doesn't, if I know that there's, this is going to be a map that will feel out of place with the other maps that I'm putting in there, like if this is a map that this is going to be a map that will feel out of place with the other maps that I'm putting in there, like if this is a map that isn't going to jibe with, not shy, that isn't going to fit well with what I'm at, because sometimes, yeah, exactly, I want it to feel like a, a workout that holds together.

Kat:

So if there's maps that doesn't feel like that's gonna fit in um in the workout, then I will go back and redo it. But we don't usually, you know, redo work If the work is done and it's done well and probably is out there and people probably like it.

Kat:

So okay put it back in there and that's the case. That has always been the case, even before multi-intensity, Like if I've been doing a high workout and there's a high that Justin did in there, as long as you know, it doesn't do something completely different or would throw somebody off. I'm going to take that and put it and use it.

Kat:

So that has always been the case. Now say there's nothing in there, there's not a map that I want to start from. A lot of times I will go in and I will say, hey, I map, I did that map as a medium, I did that map as a high. I liked what I did or I didn't like what I did.

Kat:

If I didn't like what I did, I'm going to do something completely different, but then I will go in and use that as the starting base um and if there's no map at all and I'm going in, you know, straight they've been a lot of recently that I've been doing boxing, for that only have been in as flow maps. So I'll go and I'll look and I'm like, oh, because I'm like oh, yeah, I've done that before. And I go and it's like, oh, no, yeah, I did that as flow, I did that a couple times as flow. All right, now it's time to do boxing. So I I kind of always assume that I'm going to do it as a high and I'll go in and I'll start with a high. But I don't force myself to that. I basically listen to the music and then map it how it feels like it should be, because there's.

Kat:

There's like I'll hear a song and my husband laughs at me now because I'll be out in the world and I'll hear a song and I'll be like you're like he's just laughing at me but I'll go through and I'll put down this this is what this song wants, and then, after I'm done, I'll go back and, um, I'll look at like how dense the targets are, how complex the patterns are and how it feels in my body, and then I'll make the call is that actually a high? And sometimes it's not, sometimes it's's not, sometimes it's a medium. So if it's a medium, then I put it down in medium and I copy it up into the next level and I add some complexity, I put in some. You know, there have been songs that I don't feel support a high without extra targets, like extra patterns put in, like there'd be a song and I'm like you know this can have a ba-da a in there.

Kat:

You know that isn't actually there in the music, but it feels right. Right, but it wouldn't be what I would put down normally. So I'll take that and I'll do that and I'll add the complexity or maybe I'll have you know instead, like a thing that I'm kind of fond of and this is probably going to let a lot of people know what my maps are. But in boxing, if I'm leveling up a medium, I like to do what we call disco steps. This is an Ethan thing where if it's a slip, do a slip and an uppercut when you're going into that slip. Um it just it feels good for me and it adds a lot.

Kat:

That adds a lot of extra um movement difficulty yeah, yeah, it's movement and it's also like it gets your heart rate up pretty fast, so I will I'll go and I'll also put targets underneath ducks and stuff like that. So the things that were they're not really a pause because you're still moving your body like something that you're still moving your body in the medium it.

Kat:

It amps up how you're moving your body and that you know, will bring it up into being more of a high. I'll also split lanes more for highs. Um, take things around more. I try to keep the general movement the same, but I'm more likely to do a cross jab or cross cross, ha ha, ha in the high level and then after say, I did, create, create a high. After I've got that high created, then I'm going to copy it down into the next level and I'm going to just look at that and be like, okay, I can't hit all of those. You know like I just did a PowerPoint, a lot of PowerPoint recently and I love PowerPoint, so happy me.

MJ:

Um, but that's a lot of punches yes, so it doesn't translate to medium for all those punches, yeah no, it doesn't.

Kat:

So now, then I'm like, okay, I have to bring it back and think, what, what are the key ones? So I go through and I'm like, what hits harder, what? And then I'll like take, take things out. And then I have to, you can't just take out targets. I mean, yes, I can just delete targets, but then I also have to think about what's the pattern that it leaves behind.

MJ:

Yeah.

Kat:

So, you know, is it a jab jab. You know, instead of being da-da-da, is it da-da.

Kat:

Or is it? You know, da, you know like walking more, I'm more like, and then I have to again after I go through and I have a medium that I'm happy with and feels really good. I pull it down, you know, to the low, and the low is okay. What are the basic hits? What are the hits that have to be there in order for it to feel satisfying? And yeah, I did one recently where it's like the high, I was just oh, this is, this is juicy, this is great. And the medium. I brought it down and I'm like okay, yeah, I really like this. This is what I would have done for medium and um. Then the low was, um, like, okay, this does have a boom every two, every two beats has a strong hit and I basically let the low just sink into that and sink into having it be strong hits all the way got it with that time in between.

Kat:

So that was like you know it benny likes to say. You know it probably lacked a little spice because it was, you know, mostly those straight hits, but the straight hits just felt so satisfying with that yeah and when you're, you know, power punk is like, oh yeah, that's, it's all about that boo.

Kat:

You know the big feeling, and so that felt really satisfying and at the end of it I'm like this is a really, you know, like it. It may not be as specialized as it would be like. If I'm doing a one thing, I'm only thinking about that one level and I'm thinking about making it as special for that one level as possible.

Kat:

But you know, it's a journey and and I I know that some people have been like well, it's not a different experience. You know, playing it on the different levels, it's like it's not supposed to be a different experience. This is one story, yes, and I'm telling you one story.

MJ:

It's not supposed to be a different experience.

Kat:

This is one story, yes, and I'm telling you one story. It's how many words or how many details I'm giving you about that story. Like I can say, I went to the store.

MJ:

Okay, that's the beginning, middle and the end I went to the store.

Kat:

It's like I went to the store because I needed to buy this and this and this, and then I went to the store because I had to buy this and this and this, and then I went to the store because I had to buy this and I found this and I ran into this. Those are all extra details you you maybe just needed to know. I went to the store and you're happy with that. That's a great way to put it yeah.

MJ:

It's telling a story.

Kat:

Like within the workout, it's telling the story and it's like yeah, it's not a different experience. If you want a different experience, go into a different workout.

Kat:

It'll be like that same song in a different workout can be different. Maybe not, but it can be different depending on whether the choreographer who put it together and if they decided to, you know, to take, if they liked what I did and it fit with what the story they were telling, then they will take that and use that. But they may not. They may just build it from scratch and that's entirely up to them.

MJ:

So how do you know if a low is a low, a medium is a medium and a high is a high? Like is it? Based on the amount of targets, triangles or bobs and weaves, the complexity I'm you know? Can lows spin? How do you determine that something is a low, something is a medium and something is a high?

Kat:

Interesting question. You said can lows spin Previously? They could not. Previously lows stayed in the front 90 degrees.

Kat:

Okay, 180, front 180, 90 degrees to either side of center and there was also certain things about how far after a target a triangle could be, and we've eased up on that a little bit and in going to multi-intensity we decided we want the experience to be as similar. We want you to be able to step up in this. We want this to be if you find a workout you like and you're doing low. The joy of a curated like a single intensity workout is that it is curated for that level. It is a specialized moment in time. That's there. But there are a lot of people who there are a lot of people who would be very disappointed, like we. We tried very much so with any sort of special workout like, specifically, disney, disney. Everybody loves disney well, not everybody.

Kat:

But a lot of people love disney yes, and they want to do those workouts and so we always have had those special workouts. Be medium because we figured it was the most inclusive. Yeah, uh, yeah, if you, if you're a low, if you're a low level person and artist, series two were always I don't know if you noticed we're always medium. Yeah, it's because if you were a um low intensity, um athlete, you would get in and it would be hard for you but you would still. It still could be achievable. You know, like it wouldn't be too overwhelming and it you know, if you are a high level athlete or high intensity athlete, you could, you could suffer doing a medium. If that is how you felt about mediums. It's like, oh, I really don't want to do a medium. That is how you felt about mediums. It's like, oh, I really don't want to do a medium, but I really want to do this workout, so, okay, I can do this. We didn't want that anymore.

Kat:

You know, like we wanted to actually be able for people to be. I want to do that workout and I want to do it at the level that I feel most comfortable doing and it also lets people grow into that workout. So you have. If you love Disney and you want to do into that workout, so you have. If you love disney and you want to do that disney workout, and you start as a low athlete. You do that until you're comfortable and then it's like you can then go up to medium and it's not a new experience, but it's a refreshed experience.

Kat:

You know, like all of a sudden there's going to be things that you didn't hear. Like that you're going to hit that you didn't hear before, moves you didn't have before, um, so and then also going up into high. You know that would be a next step so you'd be able to continue. You know not that you have to do this. I hope you don't do the same workout over and over and over, but if you do, I mean hell that's what I used to do with beat saber when I playeder.

Kat:

I would start off and I would do it over and over again and grow and grow and grow until I could, you know, got mastered it. But you don't have to do that. You can, you know, like this way, you can grow with it if you want. So I will get back to the question, which I have sort of forgotten, but I feel like it's on the tip of my tongue.

Kat:

Is there like a oh, how do I know what's a medium and what's a low? Yes, yes, okay, now part of that is there, is you know, there's certain we have an amount of targets that feel comfortable in each level, yeah, and that we've established. It has grown Like it has changed a little bit over time, but those are benchmarks that we work with. There's also the complexity of movement. This is another thing that has kind of changed, because it used to be you didn't cross arms in Lowe's. We are doing it, but we're it with with care. Now, okay, if you're in a high, you'll be doing like there's for sure you're going all over. Part of it is the readability and making sure that the um athlete, as they see it, they understand what they're supposed to be doing. There's no chance of them smacking controllers, um, and, and so that is part of, you know, the intensity calibration. Doing things multi-lane is part, like if you're in flow, doing multi-lane stuff coming in and out. Of that, that's um part of the difficulty and so that all comes together. Um, triangles, a little bit Triangles are not necessarily.

Kat:

I mean we do, that's not true, because we try to like the view, like as things are coming at you. That's very important. How readable? How readable is the movement? How long is it going to take me to take in what I'm seeing and know what to do? Long is it going to take me to take in what I'm seeing and know what to do? And low intensity athletes tend to either be newer or just you know, sometimes movement compromised Not always, but it's a thing. So having less triangles sometimes makes it a little bit more, a little easier to read what's going on.

Kat:

So yeah, that makes sense, but that is, that is part of it. Um so, and then with, with boxing, yeah, like doing things underneath, you know, like do, like lay the more layers you put on something the more difficult it's going to um, seem or or, but sometimes it is just a well, that seems harder. It's like oh, it's not really harder, it just looks more complicated.

Kat:

Yeah, and it's like getting your brain around it A lot of times. And then there's also the calibration, like how you are calibrated, and this is something that we have to work on a lot, because we have to get in our body what a low feels like and it's like we have like calibrations of this is what a low feels like. We have workouts that we're like this is a gold standard of low, this is a gold standard of medium um, and we, uh, will go in like if we're feeling like I don't know, I feel like that should be a low, but somebody else is saying that feels too intense, then I'll go back and I'll like go back and get that intensity back. And I think that a lot of people who perhaps are watching this, you guys are like us. You do it a lot, you get over calibrated.

Kat:

Yeah, like us, you do it a lot, you get over calibrated. Yeah, you get. You start to things that you think are high, like that that would definitely qualify with a high. You're like, well, that's not that high, that's not that high, it's like TPM wise or you know like complexity wise, that is pretty high for somebody who doesn't do this.

Kat:

That is high. So you know, and if you're doing like, I know people who are doing pros only, and they're doing pros only with super speed and they're like, well, that high wasn't that high. It's like was it not that high?

MJ:

Do you need to be recalibrated for? What is a true high or a medium or low? Yeah, that makes sense.

Kat:

So we do do a lot of that. I know people are saying, well, they don't, doesn't feel like there's enough difference between you know, a high and a medium. It's like there are ranges there are you?

Kat:

know ranges and there was, you know, I know there was a somebody who said that a medium felt very much like a high, like no, that that's not a medium, that's a high. And we were like really, wow, okay, we went in and it was, you know, like a map that we went in as a team actually and we just did like voice chat together and we played through it and we all loved the medium. But I could see that it was the complexity, the complexity of it and it was a Benny map and he was making you do things that you don't always do.

Kat:

It was like it was a little bit pushing the boundaries in, like changing lanes when going like up down, punching on the side going down squatting in the middle, punching on the other side, timing perfectly medium, like right in the pocket, there was not, that was absolute, but doing this extra movement brought it up. And then, when we played the high because we're like, okay, well, let's see difference, playing high, high was high, it wasn't just a couple extra targets. The high right asked for more. It just asked for more, and that's the the key of what we do. But we do all of our stuff. There's a layer on top of what the coaches bring to it and you know.

Kat:

So we're doing our stuff and the things we're doing is how it makes us feel the complexity of what we're asking you to do. Are we asking you to tangle your arms in a flow? Are we asking you to? Are we asking you to tangle your arms in a flow? Are we asking you to, like, really push changing lanes? Are we asking you to, like you know, do a lot of body movement side to side, or, um, you know, like, are we asking you to hit a lot of targets and change, change stances? Well, the stance changes are always going to be the same, because we need them to be the same and we need to stay the same. And if we're doing a special move.

Kat:

That special move will probably be in the same place or micro tonally off on all of the levels so that they can coach that there's a special move and show the move and right, you know it's going to be. It's going to have more space around it, like knee strikes are a perfect example. When we do knee strikes, the knee strikes will almost always be in the same place on all of the levels, um, but you're going to see a lot more space around them. In boxing, in particular, there'll be more space around it. Okay, so not as many targets.

MJ:

It's not asking you to do a lot along with the knees in a low or a medium. Got it In a medium. You're still being asked to do that. Yeah, in a medium, yeah.

Kat:

Well, it's interesting the way I view it is a medium. I think that most people, I think I think most people are medium. I think high is like. I feel like mediums here, high, low is here, high is here, and then pros only is a little tiny bit on the other side.

MJ:

Little tiny yeah for sure With um. If the goal is which this is what it sounds like to me is to get low users to medium eventually, and medium users eventually to high, it makes sense that the maps for the multi-intensity workouts would all be based on the same experience, so that you can level people up by adding a little bit more complexity, asking a little bit more of them. When things are coming out of the portal, it's a little bit more cluttered. You know it's got targets, it's got triangles, it's got things going on, whereas maybe in a low you would not see that when you said that.

Kat:

I think about it. It's like a dance class. You take a dance class. The first thing you're going to be asked to do is shift. You know, shift weight, step together, touch. You know, do that basic thing. And then you, just as you get more used to it, you add more on. You add more on. It gets more complex and then how you perform it brings that like you get to a certain level and it's like if you're just going through the motions, it's not you. You need to bring that extra.

Kat:

You know the high you should be bringing that extra style and and and well it's funny because you mentioned high users.

MJ:

I'm, I'm a typical high user, I'm, I live in the high land, um, but I also really love mediums because it gives me the space to add new fun things that I want to do, such as staying in a squat the whole time or moving frontwards and backwards One thing that we can't do in the supernatural realm right now yeah, Right now, maybe one day but moving front, you know, forwards and backwards. So for me, when we had special workouts like artist series or Disney, I was like oh, as a high user, I'm like, oh, I'm excited I can add my own thing in here and still play it the way it was intended for me to play it. But I do think it's kind of cool that there are all the choices now and all the workouts are mostly coming out in multi-intensity. At first I was a little for me. It takes me a minute to accept change. I know this about myself, I'm fully aware about this.

MJ:

I I I'm afraid things will be changed too much and supernatural will be different, but it's I'm not finding that when I'm playing multi-intensity workouts, I really like to check them out in medium and high. Sometimes I'll go back in. If I really like a workout. Play it on low to see what's going on Like what are they doing here, what? How are they training us to move up?

Kat:

Yeah, it's. It's kind of, I think building blocks is a really good thing, so it's like the low when you go into it.

Kat:

It should be the building blocks, it should be the bare bones skeleton of what the rest of the workout is, and sometimes, when I'm doing a low, what I'll do is, if there is a complex pattern that I've done that involves crossing arms and coming up and doing, you know, a two arm movement, that I'll just do the one side of it, so you've trained it, yeah. And then when you get to medium you'll see, oh, there's two, you can do it with both arms, like you'll do. You'll do it right, later on you'll do it left, and then, oh wait, in your medium you'll do it right. Later on you'll do it left, and then, oh wait, in your medium you'll do it together and then it's not. I cannot assume that somebody is going to be doing it in all levels and growing with it, but that is like as a dance teacher, that is kind of what I'm expecting.

MJ:

That's your intention.

Kat:

That is my intention, yeah. And like, coming at it from, like say it's a high, that it's a high coming, that's going to be. Well, that's, that's the goal, that's the, that's the end routine. How do I build it up so they can get to that end routine and feel good, I like that I like that.

MJ:

So, since we're talking about multi intensity, what about pros only? Is pros only going to come into multi-intensity land, or is that its own beast?

Kat:

right now it's its own beast and I think for the near future it's going to stay its own beast, because there's some magic with pros only and and actually I'm excited because I have never done a pros only until recently Um, very soon my first pros only is going to come out in boxing. Uh, you guys can guess what that is. Um, but um, and I'm excited because I also curated that one.

MJ:

I'm like I want to do these are the songs I want to use.

Kat:

So I love that, but, um, the it's a special child and it's a special child and it's a special child because we're asking you to do like it's not just the amount of targets, it's the amount of targets and the complexity, and I think that pros only would suffer if we were trying to like really bare bones it. We were trying to like really bare bones it, who knows, we may like and this is not anything that we are talking about or planning, but just me like, maybe someday it might be nice to do, you know, a, a something that is medium high pros only, but that is not what we're talking about right now.

Kat:

And there are some workouts that you know like there, we, we are not going. You will not never see. That is horrible. That English is really bad. There will occasionally still be solo intensity workouts, aside from pros only.

MJ:

Okay.

Kat:

It's not. We're not saying we're never doing solo intensity workouts again, it's just right now. We're really in a push for multi-intensity to get a lot out there. Yeah, and the cool thing is that we are doing we're taking popular workouts that are out there and have been very popular and those are being given back to the original choreographer to create it as a multi-intensity. So it will still exist as the workout that's out there, but there will also be a multi-intensity version. I think that's pretty neat.

MJ:

I have to admit it is kind of cool to see you guys reimagining older popular workouts for all three intensity levels. One of my favorite all-time workouts of yours 80s Heat Is On was one of the first ones redone for all multi-intensity. That was really great For the anniversary. Yes, it was Along with Boss Moves, which is one of Justin's workouts, and both of those workouts are like fan favorites. I mean, the community goes nuts for them. So it made so much sense to see them re put out and re released and that's been interesting to see because you also get sort of a glimpse at what the popular workouts are. And then if you see one that you love, you're like oh well, that was popular with everyone else too. Cool, okay, you said um, you guys are given back the workouts. Assuming you're not already busy with a bunch of other projects you're working on, you get to step up and step down those original workouts.

Kat:

Yes.

MJ:

That's great.

Kat:

I will say unfortunately, 80s Heat is on. Benny stepped it up and down. Yeah, I did not. I was not able to do that because I was on vacation.

MJ:

Well, good for you. He did you justice. He did you a service, a great one, because I've played it on high. I haven't played it on low, but I've played it on high. I haven't played it on low, but I played it on high. Um, but your medium is still my favorite. I I well, that's good. I remember playing it. The day came out with friends and we were all what, uh, and we're ducking and do it and I'm like what is what is happening? This is the best it's great.

Kat:

I still am very, very proud of it. Actually, today I'm very, very proud of it.

MJ:

Actually, today we did. Mark used that one as his his. We were doing to celebrate the launch of the new. You can play anything in in Supernatural together. Mark's room was 80s. He does on. That's awesome to hear. That's a fantastic choice.

Kat:

I can see why he would pick that one. It's great, especially with a group of friends. Yeah Well, it made me not be able to pick it. You're like oh shoot, actually I had thought about doing it.

MJ:

And then I'm like I don't know if I want to do an hour of doing that workout, because that hurts, it gets you. It gets you in the abs, the glutes, the legs, all of it. It is a full body workout. Every time I play that one I'm usually sore the next day. So you did a great job on that one.

Kat:

I was sore for a week when I was mapping it.

MJ:

Oh, no, oh man, that's how you know. It's super focused for the abs or whatever, which you know leads me to another question. Now that you guys are doing multi-intensity, you have to listen to that song three times over and, over and over.

Kat:

Okay, I think it's funny that you said like listen to it three times. It's like way more than three.

MJ:

Listen to it probably.

Kat:

Yeah, it's a lot. Three times it's like way more than three. Listen to it probably, yeah, yeah, it's a lot of times. But the thing is because, okay, the first time you listen through it and usually for me, you know, I know the song or I listen to the song ahead of time and I know what's coming I listen to 15 seconds and I go back and I'll listen to those 15 seconds again. I make some choices, I go back, I listen to those 15 seconds again, I go back and they're like they're like a little tiny, like a little, tiny increments.

Kat:

But the thing is it's like you do this much, you do like this much of the intro, go back this much of the intro, go back this much. But I play through all of it to make sure it connects, because you have to connect. So usually it'll be like you do that with the intro, you do that with the verse, you do that with the chorus and then you play through up until that point. So you're listening to a lot. But after you do that the first time, it's incremental, because I'll take that high, I've made that high, I copy it into medium. I've made a lot of choices already and I know the music pretty well by that. So I sometimes even even in the high, I'm like, okay, I know what the media like, what part of the medium is gonna be like what. Because I'm like, okay, this is the must hit, this is the, you know the x, this is the frosting, you know so. So medium and and um, high.

Kat:

Usually the level down from high to medium goes pretty quickly because it's like just sculpting, you know just a little like, uh, giving it a haircut, you know like little bits there and there, and then going down to low, it's like okay, well, what that? That bare bones thing? So, um, sorry, my little, my little girl has decided to join me um, but um yeah. So it's like a lot of the choices are subconsciously made at the beginning.

MJ:

Yeah, that makes sense, cause you're already, you're sitting there, you start with a high and then, while you're mapping the high, you're thinking okay, well, I could take this section out when I go to low. So you're doing a lot of thinking about the other intensities and the future work you'll do while you're doing the work. Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah, that makes about the other intensities and the future work you'll do while you're doing the work. Yeah, oh, that's interesting, yeah.

Kat:

That makes a lot of sense, At least for me. That is a me process. That's not necessarily everybody else's process.

MJ:

Yeah, and the cool sort of thing in my mind is you guys started working on Supernatural together and when you started working on Supernatural together they were all multi-intensity, so you sort of got to play there before it came to the full catalog with all multi-intensity. So you kind of had an idea of your own process and what will work for you by that, because I'm sure each of you has what works for you guys.

Kat:

Yeah, and honestly, doing the Super supernatural together is a little bit different in effect, because that has the challenge zones.

MJ:

Yes, and the challenge?

Kat:

zones involve a lot of you know like decision making about that and you know there's certain rules about what you can and can't do around the challenge zone. Like you cannot change stance around the challenge zone, yeah, that makes sense time.

Kat:

But yeah, it's um. So that was part of it. And I think that I think the supernatural together and doing the multi-intensity led to people saying internally like, well, people have asked to have this in multi-intent, you know, and like the audience really had asked for it. And then we were like, oh, we did it. And they're like, okay, well, let's do it for like, let's do it for special things, let's do it for, like, artist series and the special ones, and having you know done, doing that, they're like, okay, well, we've proven we can do this solo intense, you know, like solo open intensity workouts. You know like solo open intensity workouts, you know like um or multi-intensity workouts. So then it was like they just kept going. I was like, oh well, maybe we do a few more. Maybe we do a few more. Well, maybe this is just our plan.

MJ:

This is where we go.

Kat:

Yeah.

MJ:

Do you find that there is a particular genre of music that's harder or easier to map in all three intensity levels? Like for me? I think of. Like, let's say, smooth sailings, the kind of music that's in a smooth sailing.

Kat:

I like smooth sailing. I know a lot of people don't like smooth sailing, but I do like smooth sailing.

MJ:

I know a lot of people don't like smooth sailing.

Kat:

I, I do like smooth sailing. There are okay, I won't say that there are categories of music that don't work. Uh, I will say there are songs that don't work for it as well. Yeah, um, there have been songs that you know have been the struggle to push too high, and maybe you know, like, and if they're too much of a struggle, then we'll say, hey, maybe this isn't the song for this workout. And I think you know, like, that's one of the reasons that I'm sort of glad that we will occasionally be doing solo intensity things, because those songs still deserve to be in supernatural. But you know, some songs just don't live in high. And there have been songs where I'm like, oh god, I don't want to do this in high, this is not going to work. And then I got in there and I'm like, oh wait, no, okay, I, I see where this can be high, I see what can go, go on here. So, yeah, that's.

Kat:

And then you sort of just have to calibrate everything accordingly. If this is high, then what is?

MJ:

low going to be from that. So it's mostly based on songs and not just whole genres of music that work or don't work. It's yeah, the song I get that. That makes a lot of sense because because, yeah, I have friends who love smooth sailings and we've been joking a lot lately about when's there going to be a high intensity smooth sailing, cause there's never been. It's only ever been lower medium. So I'm interested to see if the curation team can um come up with a set list for a smooth sailing and high Um just putting that out then to You're just putting that out there.

Kat:

yeah, I would be happy to help make that happen. I don't know if. I'll be able to, but I'll be happy to help make that happen Because, like I said, I'm glad I came up with smooth sailing because I like the name of it and I found out that I very much like it. I do not like the name that gets colloquially termed Yacht Rock. I hate that name.

MJ:

I don't either I don't, either.

Kat:

That turns me off. But I like a lot of the music in there and I have a friend who's in like 45 cover bands but one of the cover bands is a Yacht Rock cover band and I'm like there's a lot of really good music in there and there's music that could be high. There's music. There's music that that can be high in in that genre interesting, all right.

MJ:

well, I believe, if, if you, if anyone could map it, you could, if you could help figure out some highs songs, I believe, and uh my friends are probably like I can't believe Marla just brought this up.

MJ:

They're they're freaking out about this because I have so many friends who love that category of workout. I don't know what you guys call them. If it's a category like the different series series, yes, the different series of workouts and, uh, be really cool, you'd be the first to do a high, smooth sailing, cause there's not one in the library. Is there one that is easier to scale intensities, like the modality? Is it easier to scale boxing or flow, or are they both sort of the same, I think?

Kat:

it's slightly easier to scale boxing because the patterns like there are things that we do and flow and patterns that we do and flow that suffer if they you know they have it's very, deconstructing them takes a lot more, takes a lot more effort than deconstructing a pattern in boxing. Yeah, I think when we talked before I think I said that I like the problem-solving of boxing and having just fewer moves, but being able to make it feel musical and solving problems with those fewer moves, that tickles my brain in a very happy way.

Kat:

And solving problems with those fewer moves, that tickles my brain in a very happy way With flow, it's yeah, like you have to be so careful because it's a lot easier to hurt one's self if you, you know, like asking what you're asking people to do, it takes a lot of like making sure those angles are right, making sure that the movement makes sense and that the tails are flowing in the right direction, um, so yeah, that I think that it's easier to to deconstruct the patterns in in boxing than it is in flow, um, but that's just I.

MJ:

I think that's my opinion, but I the way your brain works and the way you like to tackle the puzzle of mapping you prefer for boxing. That makes a lot of sense to me.

Kat:

Well, just like I feel it's not that I prefer it, although.

MJ:

I do prefer it.

Kat:

But I think the step down is easier in boxing than it is in boxing.

MJ:

So you've already said that you typically start with a high and then work your way down. I start with what I think is the high. Got it.

Kat:

Because it may not be. I start thinking that I'm going to start with a high. I'll be like, okay, we have slots, like when we're in the editor there's a slot for high, slot for medium, slot for low. So when I get in there I go into the high slot and I'm like, okay, I'm just going to put everything in that I hear in the music and traditionally, hopefully crossing fingers everything that I hear in the music that feels right, it's the high. If not, then when I do the high I have to put things in the music that aren't there.

MJ:

Got it or I have to do complexities. I have to make it more complex, so that's that's what I mean by I think I'm doing a high, got it, but then you're like, okay, you play it back and you meet all the internal rules for each intense and you're like, well, this is really medium. I got to step it up a little bit and add things that to your brain. The music and hearing the music doesn't necessarily tell you to.

Kat:

If I'm doing a medium or if I'm putting everything in there, you know it's like oh, I hear that beat, I hear that beat. So it's all the stuff that's obviously there in the music. Sometimes there's subtle beats that aren't as obvious, so it's not like I'm making it up out of whole cloth, I'm making it up out of the space that's there that I you know kind of that maybe is not as prominent. So space that's there that I you know kind of, you know that maybe is not as prominent. So the stuff that is like this is like obviously what I hear that goes in. If that's a medium, that's a medium. I will say that recently, I'm gonna say 80% or more, that has been a high but occasionally it ends up being a medium.

MJ:

So you gave us a spoiler a little bit ago about your first pros only boxing map coming out workout and you helped curate the songs and everything. How was it to work on that? Just without any more spoilers, was it super challenging for you to create a prose?

Kat:

No, actually I had been um because, okay, so this is like I had said that 80% of the time it ends up being a high. Yeah, probably 10% of that, 20% it ends up being a pros. Oh, wow. So when I was going through stuff and if it ended up being a pros, I would get to the end and I'm like looking at, go back and I look at it and I'm like holy freaking hell, this is way like I'd get to the end and I'm like looking at, go back and I look at it and I'm like holy freaking hell, this is. This is way like usually like out of the world. So I'm like, okay, I'm just gonna go back in and save this as a prose and then come back and, as we call it, shave it down a little little bit to, like you know, bring the complexity down to uh, to a high um.

Kat:

So, yeah, I doing the uh, doing the pros only um was great, because I was like there's a couple songs that I had done that I'm like I really like this map and this seems to go somewhere. So um went to Kevin and I said here's what I'm thinking and he suggested something and there was one song that I agreed to. And then I got in and both of us had forgotten that there was a complete dead zone in the middle of the song and I'm like, yeah, I'm going to say no on this and let's put a different song in. And yeah, it worked really well, it was very happy. It is a spiritual successor to 80s. Hit is on. But as a prose I'm not saying what genre it is, I'm just saying it is a spiritual successor to the movement that is there.

MJ:

So you expanded on those movements.

Kat:

Yes, but it is not an absolution.

MJ:

Okay, fair. Oh, I'm excited. Okay, I'm excited. I don't know, I don't know if the community has known this, but this will be your first prose and that's so exciting. Yeah, are you interested in doing prose flow or you want to stick in boxing world?

Kat:

I will probably stick in the boxing world. I love the prose flows that are out there. It's not the way my brain works. It's not the way my brain works. Yeah, I appreciate, like, if I go into, you know JR or Justin or Benny, or Asia's maps, and I don't know if I've ever played a Lowry prose but when I go in and I play their maps, I am in awe and I think, wow, that is brilliant. I would not have thought of that. Wow, that is brilliant. I would not have thought of that. And, um, I realized that there's no need for me to do pros when they're doing such awesome pros. I did really enjoy doing the boxing and hope I get a chance to do more of the boxing. But, um, yeah, we'll see. It'll probably depend on, like, if you, if you guys, once it's out there, you know, if you guys rate. Once it's out there, you know if you guys rate it highly maybe I'll get to do more.

MJ:

Exactly, make sure you're rating it, make sure you're hitting other two and sending emails when you like workouts, or even if you have an issue with the workout environment, anything like that.

Kat:

Yes, yes, Um, yeah, somebody had mentioned that and um, I I had had thought that people talked about the comments Like I don't make, I don't rate things because they don't want us to. So I said, oh yeah, we got writing comments. So I would always thought the writing comments were part of the thing there which I'm sort of glad. It's not because I know I hate typing in VR, so I'm glad you guys don't have to.

Kat:

But yeah, rate, rate them. Send in comments, like, if you're not happy with something, send it in and be as specific as you can with what you are happy with or not happy with, just because it makes a difference. Like, if you care enough to send in comments, they do pay attention. Everything you send in, everything you send in like it is read, is is talked about. You know, like it it's, it makes a big difference, it's assuring to know that, as someone who rates, workouts, who sends?

MJ:

emails.

Kat:

I'm glad you guys read them yeah, it is a hundred percent not going into the void, it's like it. It's. Yes, comments in the facebook group are looked at, but not to the degree that if you care enough to write in a comment, um, it's there. There's always something like it's talking about the silent majority, like there was a thing. That's like whatever. Like in customer service, like if you get a comment, there's probably 99 other people that have the same comment that aren't writing in. So that is how they view it. That is how they view it.

Kat:

So if you send in comments, you had an outsized effect on what happens in Supernatural. Honestly, just completely out there, it's like you will have more influence than other people by sending in comments and rating stuff. Yeah, rate your workouts.

MJ:

A lot of people don't even know it's there.

MJ:

Nope, they don't Rate your workouts and if you just hit other, it prompts you, sends you an email automatically that you can reply to and you can tell them all the things you love, all the things you wish were different, that didn't work for you, whether it's coaching, movements, environments. If you have a hard time seeing things, let them know that. Specifically, song four, I had a hard time seeing the white targets, or I couldn't see the tails, or you know, I loved this move, I loved what coach doc had to say in this. Tell them all of that stuff.

Kat:

Um all of it. They want to hear it.

MJ:

Yeah, Sometimes I get a little carried away and write novels of things. I don't expect others to do that, but you know, just telling them your thoughts and taking that time is it means a lot to you guys.

Kat:

It does. It does Cause it will come back to us as well. You know, like, yes, we see, like we'll see it probably quicker on the Facebook group, but we'll definitely hear about it when you make, when you make comments.

MJ:

So we usually end our episodes with a workout suggestion of the week, but I want to tie this workout suggestion of the week into another question, which is do you have a particular workout in multi-intensity that you're super proud of or you remember making and were excited about it? Maybe we could turn that into the workout suggestion of the week.

Kat:

Okay, well, I have recently done both sides of the artist series, which is not we don't usually do both sides of the artist series, but I did both sides of the sorry Def Leppard artist series, both boxing and flow, and it was fun because some of I think there's two songs that are there's at least one song that's in both of them. I think there might be two in both of them. So it was very interesting to have that experience of doing it for both. You don't often get that of doing it both a flow and a box at least so close together. So, yeah, there are others that I am more proud of. I think that I've gotten better at it. But, as we've mentioned before, there is a time distance between when the stuff is so. Honestly, the multi-intensity that you guys are seeing now is the first multi-intensity that we were doing.

Kat:

We first started doing the multi-intensity that we were doing. We first started doing the multi-intensity, so I think that you are going to see everything get a little bit more massaged and we grow as artists as we're going through them. So the more multi-intensity workouts we do, the more we have been accustomed. But of the stuff that is out there now, yeah, I I think that the the Def Leppard stuff is is solid.

MJ:

I always say that you guys Supernatural team choreographers you guys live in the future, because what you yeah, what we see that come out on Monday morning you worked on three, four months ago. You guys are already ahead of us working on new stuff. So I bet questions like what's something you're really proud of is difficult, because I'm sure the way you want to answer it is to be like something I was working on yesterday, marla, but I can't tell you about that.

Kat:

Yeah, there's a workout that I just wanted to. I said I was working on Power Punk. That Power Punk workout is so good, it is so good, I'm so excited about it and you know like. I'll let you know when it does come out. But the funny thing is I have no idea when anything's coming out.

Kat:

So sometimes it's like something will pop up and I'm like, oh, that's out, oh, yay, good, anything's coming out, yeah. So sometimes it's like something a pop-up and I'm like, oh, that's out, okay, good. I only I had to actually go looking to find out when my pros only was coming up, because I worked on that a long time ago, yeah, a long time ago, and it just, you know got.

MJ:

It's like oh, when is that coming out? Hmm, yeah, well, we're gonna be on the lookout. I.

Kat:

I basically did it and I said and I worked, worked with a coach on it specifically I'm like, hey, I'm going to do this. And what was really fun is, with that one I actually, the first time that coach played it through, I sat in on a session and the coach is like, okay, you know, what I usually do is I turn on a tape recorder and, as I'm experiencing it, I just record myself as I'm experiencing it so I can know what it feels like the first time I play it. So, going through and I was doing it with them and as they're going through, they started swearing at me. I'm like, okay, yay, I got it, that's good.

MJ:

Yes, that's the reaction you want from a pose only. Pros only are for the athletes who have gone through the training of low, medium and high. And our pros they can deal with all the complexity and all that movement. So having that reaction from that coach is golden.

Kat:

It was, it was, it was beautiful, you were like yes, yes, yes, I did it right.

MJ:

That's amazing. Well, we look forward to it. So we know a new pros boxing is coming from you. Power punch, we should be looking for them. Power punk. Thank you for correcting me. Yeah, I want to say punch, because we're talking boxing, because we're talking boxing.

Kat:

Yeah, and that's not the name of the word. That has nothing to do with the word. It is just the category of music it is.

MJ:

Yes. So when we see a song, we're like, Hmm, I wonder if it could be categorized here. We'll be second guessing ourselves every Monday.

Kat:

I don't think that's coming out until September or October.

MJ:

Well, when Asia was on her episode a few months ago, she was so excited about a very particular map she had just worked on that week and she mentioned it and she said I can't really tell you more about it. She mentioned it during episode. She said I'll tell you who the artist is, and so a few of us have just been stalking the workouts looking for this song and anytime this artist was here, we're like Asia is this, is this the one you're excited about? So I think it's cool to give people something to look forward to little Easter eggs in that way, um, without spilling all the beans.

Kat:

So I was going to say so. Are you saying that you want to know what the? Uh, one of the?

MJ:

artists. No, I'd rather leave us all sitting here guessing, um, how you're putting together that description with a particular artist, and we're going to start spiraling and thinking every Monday this is going to be. This is going to be the map Kat's talking about. This is going to be the map Kat's talking about. This is going to be the map.

Kat:

I prefer that. Well, it's not the map, it's the whole. The whole workout is like. I'm really, I'm like so excited about the whole workout.

MJ:

Awesome. Um, I appreciate you coming on and talking about multi-intensity. I feel like it's the natural progression in the way forward for Supernatural. Um, all of us old school athletes who are a little apprehensive to change, I see us coming around a little bit more because I do see all of you putting in so much time and effort into the maps you're putting together. Hearing from you is huge.

Kat:

And, like I said, I think we're getting better at doing the multi-intensity. I think at first we were kind of finding our way of like. You know like, because it when I did first start doing the multi-intensity, it was like, oh, like, I've just done this, I have to do it again and do it again, and so there was a little bit of like trying to find my footing about what it meant to do the multi-intensity. And I do think that we are really finding a way to make it that that journey which is, I think is, or that storytelling thing and why that's important. So, yeah, if you're playing a multi-intensity, do not expect it to be like no, it's not, it's not.

Kat:

We don't just go in and remove some targets. That's yes, we remove targets, that is part of it, but it's not, it's not. We don't just go in and remove some targets. That's yes, we remove targets. That is part of it, but it's. It is more thoughtful than that, you know, like, and it is also like how it feels in our bodies and that, and we do really like there are lanes for all of these things and they're not sitting in the same lane. So, just finding that ability, know that it will seem the same. It will seem similar. It should seem similar.

MJ:

Right.

Kat:

It should seem like it's the same story, just told a different way.

MJ:

I love that. I love how you frame it as a story, as an experience. That experience should be similar and it should help you get to the next level of the story. If you're moving up and progressing in intensity levels and I often play, if I really like a workout, I'm like, well, I want to check it out in medium now, I want to see what they did in low. So I'm going to be looking now to see, especially on your workouts, now that you explained you'll think about it and you'll be like, oh, does this feel like it's the same Cause?

Kat:

if it doesn't feel like it's the, if it doesn't feel like it belongs in the same universe as the other maps, then we've done our job wrong.

MJ:

Yeah, fair, I like that. Is there anything else you would like to add about your multi-intensity journey and your process? I think you were pretty clear for us.

Kat:

I think the community is going to love it. Yeah, I don't. I I'm trying to think of any other questions that I saw that um you know. Oh, the only other question that I saw that uh people mentioned um is do we ever do other people's maps? Like, does one person do um a medium and one and any?

Kat:

other people take it up. Currently, that is not what we're doing. Um, usually it's like there are still times when, um, if somebody's slammed and we have a workout that needs to get done, we'll have. Um, multiple people work on a workout, but generally, unless somebody is sick or not around or something happens tragically, which nothing has happened so far, one person does both the level up and level downs.

MJ:

That's good to know yeah. Yeah. It's one person's decision the whole way through, the whole way through, so you're not just like one person doing the lows, then the next person doing the mediums and then so forth. Yeah, you take ownership of the full workout unless there's circumstances, things happening, that makes sense.

Kat:

The only reason I said that is because it could happen. It could, but it hasn't so far.

MJ:

Let's knock on wood that it doesn't because, yeah, all right, that makes sense. I like that and I, you know. There is one thing I have seen suggested in the community which might help and that is to have you guys, the choreographers, sort of label what intensity you would play the workout or what intensity you mapped the workout in. But I know curation team comes up with the song list, but now that we're doing multi-intensity, the song list is still picked but should be able to work for all three intensities. I don't know, this is a very convoluted question. I think you understand what I'm saying.

Kat:

Yeah, no, I do. They are curating. They're not curating for a particular level, but they're curating to allow every level to exist. Or if they haven't, then we request that changes be made. But yeah, they're curating for multi-intensity, they're thinking about it being a multi-intensity option and the problem with saying what it was intended, as if it's a workout that we are reissuing. It should be pretty obvious it should be clear level.

Kat:

Yes, for sure because that would be what the original workout was, right. Um, if it's from scratch, like if it's a brand new compilation, it would be very difficult to say that this is a you know, because, as I said before, per me, for me it's for song, right so if I get in and I start playing it and I'm like, okay, well, I've made, I've made this map and it's a high.

Kat:

Then maybe the next one sits at a medium and I raise it up to high. So you can't do it per song, that would just be silly right, right, yeah, right.

Kat:

But all of the highs should feel similar complexity and similar. You know like, although there is a range in each level and the ranges do overlap a little bit, like you know, there's like if this is low and then this would be medium, so there's like a there's a gray zone in between everything when it's like technically that could be maybe a high or a medium, but depending on the complexity, you know that can push it in one direction or the other. So yeah, and then also like, if I have something that sits at the high end of high, I'll probably have it sit at the high end of medium and the high end of low, so it still feels the same, um, but it can be in a workout where things are at the lower end, and then that's up to curation and the coaches to blend the full journey of the workout. So it goes through all of those levels, if that makes sense, got it.

MJ:

So it wouldn't really work to label hey, this song was originally created in, or this workout was originally created in medium, because it's per song.

Kat:

Well, if it was originally like, if it was an originally medium workout, then sure. But the workout, like, if it's, yeah, if it's, if it's a brand new workout, it's going to be and curated for multi-intensity.

MJ:

It's curated for multi-intensity and can be played on all three. Yeah, that's fair.

Kat:

That's, that is the goal yeah, got it, got it.

MJ:

I um look forward to seeing your pros boxing and checking out. I've played the deaf leopard artist series flow, but not the boxing, so I'm definitely going to check out the boxing. One on high, though Is that that good, good idea for me? I'm like I like high. You're like I like I'm excited to play that and that's with Mark. Oh gosh, oh no, it's going to. It's going to be high, it's going to be Mark's energy, you're mapping oh gosh Okay, so it's, it's, you know, multi-intensity.

Kat:

So yeah, if you get, if you get stuck in high, you know you can pull it down, but I don't think you'll get stuck in high.

MJ:

I don't think so. I'll be. I should be okay, all right? Well, I appreciate you coming on. Um, it's always good, always a good day, when I get a chance to talk about supernatural and have you guys on the show to chat about it. And, uh, we will see you next time. Thanks for joining us on today's episode of for the love of the map. As always, you can join the discussion in the private Facebook group and follow along with show updates on Instagram and TikTok. Links can be found in the description below. If you find value in the show, please share it with your friends. Your comments, likes and reviews are invaluable and I cannot thank you guys enough. See you next time.