For the Love of the Map
Are you looking for an out-of-headset dose of all things Supernatural: Unreal Fitness? Look no further! This is the place to discuss the latest scoop on new choreography, in-depth workout reviews, and all the happenings in the community. Whether you're a seasoned pro or just starting, the show covers everything you need to stay up-to-date and continue to find joy in movement!
For the Love of the Map
Creativity in Motion: Supernatural Choreographer Dave Kassirer EP|33
Meet Supernatural Choreographer Dave Kassirer!! Dude's passion for creativity and movement shines through as he shares his love for music, art, and the Supernatural Community!
Visit the website at: https://fortheloveofthemap.buzzsprout.com
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Check out Dave’s other creative projects:
https://on.soundcloud.com/kL4qs
What does meditation do? It tells you where to go, it tells you what to do you know, or it lets you be you. So I like puns and kind of dad joke puns things that are probably not that funny, but it's kind of like aha.
MJ:You know some tool, some tool. Can we get some tool please?
Dave:Oh man, I mean me and Justin are already dejected position of like the hard and soft moments in that song. A dejected position of the hard and soft moments in that song, super connected to that song, that location. I'm going to turn it and say what Would you Think I Did? Oh gosh, obviously it was my subtitle 99.9%. Sure that that was the first high box I did and half of that song is windfall. It is. I made beats in groups and sometimes put some beats to those and half of that's on a dribble. It is, it's a group and sometimes there's some beats to it.
MJ:Make sure you check Dave's journey, make sure he played this workout with us since he suggested it, you know. Yes, welcome back to another episode of For the Love of the Map, where we talk all things supernatural, choreography and the joy in movement. Today I'm super excited to introduce you guys to Mr Dave. That's what I call him. I actually call him Mr Rave, but we'll get into that later.
Dave:Oh no.
MJ:Welcome to the show, Dave.
Dave:It's a pleasure to be here with you. I don't know why I did that voice, but yeah, I'm just super excited.
MJ:And I don't think I mentioned this, but this is one of the eight Supernatural, eight supernatural choreographers. So we get to get a peek behind the scenes at dave, his process, who he is, all the things super excited, um. But first I I had an idea to start this off and we're gonna go super fast with this. This is first gut reaction. No time to think style questions you ready?
Dave:Yeah, I think so.
MJ:Dave's like what. What are we doing? Okay, what? Broccoli or carrots Broccoli your face.
Dave:You're like neither there's a lesser of two evils. I, I don't know why.
MJ:Yeah, cool, all right winter or summer winter.
Dave:I get really hot in the summer fair desert or beach ironically desert over beach.
MJ:Interesting Okay.
Dave:I've never actually been to the official desert, but it's very beautiful.
MJ:It is very beautiful.
Dave:And you travel a lot.
MJ:Yeah.
Dave:I see it from a plane.
MJ:Yeah, I was going to say maybe you see it from the plane. You read my mind, dude, or maybe I read yours, true, all right.
Dave:Flow or boxing.
MJ:Boxing.
Dave:That cheating.
MJ:No, I'll take it.
Dave:Okay, cool.
MJ:All right. Super important one the balance of our friendship is on this one.
Dave:Rap or country? I'm ashamed that you even asked me that question, because it's definitely rap, 100%. I think you knew that, though.
MJ:I did, I did, I did.
Dave:Some you know there's some outliers, but yeah, definitely rap.
MJ:Always outliers and everything, but definitely rap. You're my kind of person. All right, very last rapid fire question Sock shoe, sock shoe or sock sock, shoe, shoe.
Dave:Can you repeat that?
MJ:Yep, and look at your feet while I'm doing it, Like pretend you're like putting on your socks and shoes getting ready for the day. Sock shoe, sock shoe or sock, sock, shoe, shoe 100%, no questions asked.
Dave:Sock, sock, shoe, shoe.
MJ:Okay, all right, fine, you're the opposite of me, that's cool.
Dave:It's because I always have socks on Like I don't like to take them off, so that's another story. But yeah, Uh, sock, sock shoe, shoe, shoe fly.
MJ:Um, tell me the story about your broken toe.
Dave:About my broken toe. I mean, I actually don't really know the story. It just kind of happened and I just thought it was swollen for no reason. But I went to Europe with my wife in the spring. It was a long overdue vacation and we walked like 40 miles in eight days in four different countries.
Dave:And then I got back and found out that it was broken. It might have been potentially. I joke with Justin about this, about how one of the last things I did before my vacation was play through Thrill and Fury. That pros only, so I joke about that being the reason why my toe is broken. But who knows, that could be it so, but there's really not. I probably just stubbed it, honestly, probably, and it's mostly better now.
MJ:so Is it mostly better.
Dave:Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
MJ:So I see a ton of different music equipment. Behind you I see a keyboard of different music equipment behind you. I see a keyboard, a guitar, what I see? A drum back there. Yeah, I'm there Some things Assume. Music is one of your passions.
Dave:Yeah, and you know, I I don't always consider myself a musician. I consider myself like a maker of noise. I do like to make music but I'm not like classically trained and I wouldn't say that I'm super great at one particular thing, I just kind of like everything. So while I play bass and sometimes I play regular guitar I'm not very good at that, I'm better at bass I also produce music and you know, just in general like to make beats in groups and sometimes put some beats to it. So yeah, and that started a really long time ago. I think I was in a punk band, like when I was 13, and played music in bands probably through the end of high school, and then I started DJing and producing and stuff.
MJ:So yeah, it's been a while oh wow, you said DJing and producing. I don't know if I've ever told you this, but my partner, chris, is also a DJ slash producer, or was it's one of his hobbies? He used to to play at events and shows, um, but now he says he's too old for all that, but often plays in the spare bedroom and one of the things he has a keyboard, and he's really big into keying music and making sure things are mixed in the proper key. And so I remember when we first started dating it would be awesome beats in the night here started dating, it would be awesome beats in the night here, just like over and over for hours while he was keying his tracks.
Dave:So, Yep, Yep, Um that I guess I can kind of tell a parallel story with like uh. When I first moved in with my wife like ben girlfriend, before engagement, you know um she was like kind of uh blown away by the amount of wires I had, um, just like I was moving my stuff and it was just like multiple boxes full of all different cables and wires. I'm like no, I need all of these. So that's part of being like kind of a musician or being into computers and you know electronic music. Otherwise it's just, you probably have an obnoxious amount of wires.
MJ:Yes, cords, we have them. I'm really lucky that Chris is super. I say OCD about it, but he has very great kibble management and has them very organized and put away in places and like labeled. But we have a ton like why do we need all these? But he says we do, so I leave that alone, go ahead. There's have a ton why do we need all these? But he says we do so. I leave that alone, go ahead.
Dave:There's always an occasion.
MJ:So you have a lot of experience in music bands producing what? Else did you do? What did you go to college for? I assume you went to college.
Dave:Well, I've always done.
MJ:So I should assume.
Dave:No, don't, don't, it's fine, I mean.
Dave:I could lie right now but I'm not going to. So I I actually started in the creative zone, I guess, with like graphic and web design creative zone. I guess it was like graphic and web design, um, I was doing that in towards the end of high school like um, like a vocational school, while I was in high school, um. So I was doing. The program was called advertising, arts and design, so we were doing, you know, print and digital media, um, a little bit of like html for websites and stuff like that, and definitely that's what I wanted to do. But because I'm always like, meh, shiny new thing, shiny new thing, I think that has morphed over time where I did about a year and a half of the whole graphic design thing at a community college by me and then I took, I think, a semester or two off and then I came back and did audio and video production, because I guess that's just the progression of things and that's what I actually got my degree in.
Dave:So, yeah, audio and video production, I really wanted to. I wanted to make a living like actually making music or scoring films or just doing things that I uh admired other people doing like, even like, doing like, uh, like foley. You know what a foley artist is. Yes, yeah, like I would love like that. That was always something that I was like oh, I love to like cut up vegetables and make sounds with them, you know like that. Um, so, yeah, I, I think, while my interests have changed, it's all part of the same.
MJ:You uh zone, I guess for sure definitely all creativity based um 100 maybe. Maybe I mean I guess computer, it was computer graphics and design. So that is creativity um I guess code is often considered creative. Maybe too um that's my brain coding yeah, I did some basic stuff back in the day with like myspace no, everybody.
Dave:I mean, that was honestly like myspace and uh, do you?
MJ:remember.
Dave:AngelFire websites, yeah, so that's where my interest peaked. I think I made a Blink-182 fan page when I was 11 or 12. I was doing that. Angelfire and GeoCities, I think, were the two. And yeah, myspace definitely is a creative outlet, even like aol instant messenger. You got to create your own little like buddy icons and stuff. So I think that's where the graphic design stuff um really originated. Um, and I would do flyers for events and um. You know, I actually worked at a print shop for about a year and a half, um, doing like signage and stuff for like retail stores and um, that was a interesting, it was like an apprenticeship and then a job and then yeah, so that was, uh, the start of my creative endeavors, I guess what other types of creative projects have you worked on?
Dave:Um, I mean, it really runs the gambit, I think, like I like to make things. Uh, you know whether it's creative or it's a puzzle you know, it's like. I, I like to use my hands. You know um and build things and hands, you know and build things and you know, over the past few years I've been getting into more. I mean, I've always liked to paint. I'm not really good at drawing, but I think probably in 2020, I started getting into different mediums like resin epoxy, using concrete a little bit of wood.
Dave:I'd like to get more into woodworking, though, but just to make household objects, even jewelry, mostly for gifting to friends and family or just to have around the house. Uh, but you know, that would be a nice little fun side project to have like a little shop where I can sell my stuff, cause like yeah, um, I like making things, you know.
MJ:I relate to that. I like making things too, and if I could I would have like a little workshop with all the things woodworking, glass blowing, I mean, you name it. I just want to play and dabble and mess around.
Dave:I actually um this lamp back here. Yeah, um, that was actually my first space amp that I've gutted and I've just put a light bulb inside of it. That's cool. So, yeah, I like to repurpose, you know, everyday objects too. Like we have one of those big old school TVs that's like wooden and on wheels from like the 70s, like the 70s, and, uh, I'm trying to convert it into like a, like a display case with like lights and stuff. It's been like a multi-year project because you know I procrastinate. So, yeah, I think it's fun repurposing things so they have a new life yeah, I like that too.
MJ:I I definitely enjoy that. Maybe I don't do that personally often enough, but I appreciate others who do, and the thought of making things and gifting them to friends and family. That speaks to my heart. If you make me something, I'm keeping it forever. You write me a note, I'm keeping it forever. You don't need to buy, I'm keeping it forever. Like you don't need to buy me something. Make something. Um, everything my kid has ever like art projects or anything she's made. It has been very difficult for me to throw any of it away. I have a special box I keep things in.
MJ:Um, so I really I can really relate to that and the creativity behind it. It's, it's got soul in it. You know emotions.
Dave:It feels good, it feels great for sure. It's just tangible things, Like I can reach out and touch it, Like they're. You know not going to touch everything in my office that I've made, but, um, you know it just feels like great, Like I mean it, it was fun when I was doing graphic design, just for fun or for work or whatever, but making something that I can feel and touch and hold, that has space, uh, there's just something different about that.
MJ:So agreed, man. So take me back to the end of 2020, beginning of 2021. That's a crazy time in everyone's life Beginnings of. Covid just about to start. We're all locked away locked away, yep.
Dave:So if we were talking about the end of 2020, that would mean my you know career, my experience as a supernatural athlete, had been in full effect for a few months at that point, because I actually, weirdly enough, bought a quest um and picked it up. The original quest, you know, one zero, whatever, um, I picked it up, I think if it wasn't the exact day it was the week that supernatural launched and I got a targeted ad and I wanted to check it out and it's like the rest is history. So if we're talking about later that year, I was already like super obsessed and just really into VR. Like in my mind, in the back of my head, I was like I really, really would love to work in VR, it doesn't matter what it is Like at some point in my life this is.
Dave:I was like I really, really would love to work in VR. It doesn't matter what it is like at some point in my life, this is where I want to be. So that's kind of like what I was thinking at the end of 2020, towards the beginning of 2021. I had a job and I was working from home already, obviously, even before COVID. I was remote and so I wasn't like actively looking for employment, but I knew in the back of my head that that's where I wanted to be. I didn't know Supernatural, but just in VR, because it's such an emerging field that you know, we have no idea where it's going to be in a few years, but it's already changed so much since, you know, the first time I wore a VR headset.
MJ:So yes, for sure, and I know that you were a supernatural athlete right before you became a choreographer. You did the workouts. I mean, you were one of us. You still are one of us, You're in the community. But the fact that I can go back and I'm definitely going to add this to the YouTube version of this episode but I found a fantastic post of you and you're doing flex Friday before it's really officially for flex Friday and it's a gift of you and you're in your arm and you're tagged Leanne about a workout and I just thought he's one of us.
MJ:He's one of us. I think that's.
Dave:Yeah, I think both Kat and I um were.
Dave:I might be wrong, but I think probably the two of us were the only ones I think were in the community first before joining the team, at least on the choreo team.
Dave:But yeah, I mean I feel like the first month or two I was so blown away but I don't think I was like an everyday kind of blown away like I mean it blew my mind but I needed to work up to it because prior to that I did not like moving my body aside from, like you know, dancing and whatever I didn't working out never really like clicked with me.
Dave:Obviously, everybody can relate, um, a lot of people can relate, but I think, like I would say, when I actually joined the community, that's probably when I became like a four or five days a week, sometimes seven days a week, kind of supernatural athlete, because prior to that it was like you know, I'll hop in for a few things here and there, um, uh, but then, yeah, I think it was like a couple months later, so like june or july, I think of 2020 is when I joined the community. There's like a thousand people in there and uh, yeah, it was uh, a very, very uh welcoming place and, you know, still is uh just for 189 000 more people, something like that. I don't know what to know.
MJ:Maybe not that much better there's a lot of people there now, for sure, and I think it's really cool that you brought up. You were just sort of a casual supernatural user athlete, but then as soon as you joined the community, you became full blown five, seven days a week. It's something about the community. It's the whole package of everything of supernatural offers, but the community is such a major part of it. As soon as you get plugged in there, it's just it. Everything takes over. You learn about new workouts, you meet other people, you relate to others.
Dave:Um, it's such a driving force of keeping people motivated and getting in the headset yeah, and it's like you know, it's something that, uh, in most cases, like going to the gym doesn't have. Like you, I guess, if you talk to people at the gym when you work out, that's like a sense of community or whatever, um, working out of class and they see the same people over and over again. But I think the melding of community and this immersive workout, you know, that's very unique and I think I have always kind of needed gamification for things to really click for me Um, probably cause my attention span and a bunch of other things. But, yeah, I think that, uh, everything came together and here I am.
MJ:And here I am. That's amazing. And you mentioned Kat because I know both of you were athletes. First Did you come across Benny's posting in the community, the same way Kat did, looking for level mappers.
Dave:Unicorns.
MJ:Yeah, unicorns, unicorns, definitely unicorns. Is that how it worked for you? I did.
Dave:Yep, I did, I saw it and at that point I was employed and I saw it and I think I got the job and then, you know, not that much later, my company that I worked for prior essentially dissolved. My, you know, my team. We were a small team that worked remotely, doing boring stuff, but yeah, that was kind of like a sign because almost immediately after that I saw that there was another listing for choreographer. Um, and in between the time of the first and the second posting, I actually like took a um br app development course, um, you know, uh, so I learned a little bit, uh, how to code and how to use unity and building worlds and I just became more like involved in you know, vr, uh, and I was like this is where I need to be, um, um.
Dave:So yeah, I did see it, I did see that posting Um, and it definitely spoke to me.
MJ:So tell us about I. I know for Kat. She got called down, went there, they kind of went over how to map and we're like here, let's see what you got. Is that how the process sort of worked for you?
Dave:Um, you're saying that that she physically went to the um she did, but she's in California and and I know, Right, yeah, so yours was probably remote. I I'm in New York, so, um yeah, remote, Um, there were. It was probably a similar process, though, because I believe I was taken. You know, I applied and was interviewed and got to meet a lot of awesome people and I was like I really want this job. I didn't say that, but want this job um, I didn't say that, but um, uh.
Dave:I think initially a few of us were hired on like a uh, almost like a probation, probationary kind of basis, like uh, I don't know if it was supposed to be like 60 or 90 days or something. But you know, um, it was basically like let's see what you can do.
Dave:But you know, it was basically like let's see what you can do, and you know, after, I mean after I got the position, I was so ecstatic, but there was a part of me that was definitely nervous, like, oh, I have this thing and I might you know it's possible that I might lose it. But then the other part of me was like no, I got it. So, um, I, yeah, it was definitely a um, a long training experience, um, and unlike things that I've done in the past, but there are definitely some parallels and uh, yeah, I think that it was a long but amazing stretch to get to where I am now.
MJ:Right and I could be wrong here, so correct me if you need to. Unlike some of the other choreographers, you don't come from a professional dance background. You like to dance, you enjoy the movement you do, but you don't have any dance training. You come from more of a musical background.
Dave:That is correct, totally correct. I don't have formal choreography experience, don't have formal like choreography experience, but I always like to say that movement is kind of my ethos. I'm always like in a constant state of motion and I think that, going back, you know I used to. I did karate for a few years, I did soccer for a few years. I mean, I kind of always felt like I needed to do something else, just because that's my brain, but I also got really obsessed with DDR for a little while. Dance, dance Revolution.
Dave:I had a pad in my basement and I'm not sure if it was that exactly, but I, ironically, was nicknamed Dance Dance Davey for a while. That name kind of stuck. That was my first screen name on Instant Messenger, I'm pretty sure. And yeah, the Dance Dance part was partially because of VR and then I was around the time I think that Fall Out Boy song came out too, which I was really into Fall Out Boy back then. So it was kind of a push and pull and a both double meaning. But yeah, so my inspiration I think is more from my passion for music and the way I interpret sound and the way I see sound and the way I see it. You know, and I also grew up like my mom was an aerobics instructor and I used to like help her set up for classes and then, you know, play the boombox and, like you know, um, you know, basically like um usually put out some mats stuff like that Um at like a local, you know school, you know gymnasium or whatever.
Dave:Uh and so, and my grandma also worked out all the time Like so I grew up around fitness, fitness, adjacent Um and I, you know, have gone to plenty of events music festivals, concerts, whatever where I really like to get down, um. So, yeah, I've always loved to move, but I never. I didn't have that like formal dance training, yeah.
MJ:Right, just a free spirit. Didn't have that like formal dance training.
Dave:Yeah right, just a free spirit, of spirit, about it getting in there like that, yeah, exactly like, uh, you know, like to get a little loose, remember um, so you get the job.
MJ:It's supernatural, man. What a dream you get to do it remotely. You get to stay in new york and work in your headset. What did you think of the editor? Were you like? Oh my gosh, what do I do here? Experimenting with a lot of other?
Dave:dr apps and you know, I think, that the way it works is, you know, akin to, uh, like a dr version of, like photoshop or something. So I'm very familiar with those kind of you know, editing softwares and I think that being able to understand how those pieces come together I think really helped during the training process. Obviously, it's the body movement is where, yeah, it wasn't really learning editor itself. That was the challenge. It was like learning to, you know, trust my body and you know, from watching and playing all the other maps, I feel like I tried to I don't want to say reach, that's a bad word learn and grow from watching all of the other amazing choreographers on this team. And you know, we've also done a lot of in-person events where we focused on body movement and, you know, done some boxing classes and stuff like that.
MJ:So, yeah, I think that I don't remember what the beginning of my rant was, but we were talking about the editor and how it sounds like it was way more intuitive to you in the beginning because, yes, of your graphic design background, because of the vr training building classes you took and things like that, so it sort, of um, that part wasn't difficult.
Dave:It was the figuring out the movements and and getting a map made exactly, and also like from using um dawes digital audio workstations. Like you know, ableton live is the one that I use most of the time, but there's plenty of others out there like Logic and Pro Tools that I've also used. I think using those, there's a way that you look at sound and waveforms, that you know the soft and the loud and the low and the high end of the sonic, you know spectrum of music, Um, and I think that, uh, that's really I think um what influences me the most is really like uh, yeah, the, the music obviously dictates, and then I just let it guide me.
Dave:Um, that's probably. Yeah, I think it makes sense to me.
MJ:Yeah, that makes sense to me too. You listen to, to the music and figure out how you want to put the movement in the space in the map. Make it for us, do you? I know that you love so many different genres of music. Do you have a favorite you like to map to.
Dave:It's like I think it's on a case-by-case basis, because I sometimes find a lot of things surprising, um, but I think that the like the indestructible series is obviously one that was kind of relaunched like uh, I want to say recently, but it was literally like a while ago now it was a long ago now but it was literally like a while ago now.
Dave:It was a while ago now. It was skinny jeans and rip scenes originally was where we would put our, um, you know, kind of indie flavored stuff, um, and that's like I feel like home base, you know, for me, because that that's, you know what I really into, my elements. But, um, because of my you know, love for electronic music too I like you know the drop, you know differently, just dance stuff like that.
Dave:Now I'm talking about serious but specific music genres. It's like so much harder to, um, yeah, to identify, yeah, just because I I hate saying it, but I do like almost everything.
Dave:So, uh, I would say I, I don't know I can't really say there's anything in particular that I don't love mapping um, aside from maybe things I haven't tried before, like I'm not a musicals person, so I have not delved into that because I feel like, we have a lot of other people on the team who love musicals and you know, I would rather let them do it, not just because I don't think I can, it's more like you know, I, I would rather let them do it, not just because, like, I don't think I can, it's more, like you know, nine times out of 10, you're, if you're passionate about something, it's going to, it's going to come through, you know.
MJ:Yes, definitely. So let the people who are passionate about that have it. Yeah, definitely, that makes a lot of sense to me. You mentioned just dance, because we were talking about electronic music, all that. Maybe you can help me figure out this mystery. Have you ever noticed that every single Just Dance workout card has a fish on it? Every single one. Why? Why is it a fish?
Dave:Dave, I, I have like noticed that casually, but I never really thought about it. Um, these are the.
MJ:I would assume.
Dave:this is what I would assume and I could be wrong, so don't quote me on this, even though now, um, I'm just going to make this up right now. But it could be right that the nature of a fish and the way that a fish moves in water is akin to dancing. It's like flowy and free, and you think about, like I don like finding nemo, like just keep swimming, like I don't know. It's kind of like, uh, that's really that's the thing that would.
Dave:that would jump out at me um, but there could be something that's more, uh, deliberate that I just don't know. Um, but yeah, now that I'm thinking about it, I've definitely done a few and, um, they have all had fish.
MJ:So every single one of them have fish and it's got to be that it has to be there. It has to be that I think, so I mean yeah, nothing else makes sense I mean I don't like.
Dave:We have plenty of workouts with you know, animal cards basically, but usually Glutaceous, all the glutaceous, have animals. A specific part of animals, usually Behind. You know Exactly, but yeah, I think that. I think it's because it's supposed to promote that kind of like free flowing Fancy fleet, like kind of I'm a fish, I'm just flapping my little fins. Yeah, they don't flap them Right. Because, those are wings.
MJ:Yes, those are wings Cause they're in the water.
Dave:Just glide.
MJ:Yeah, that's a good way to put it. Okay, so no specific genre of music is your favorite to map. It's more of like the vibe and the feeling. Is what I'm getting from you.
Dave:Yeah yeah.
Dave:I like when things have a theme, you know, and like a through line, tell a story, tell a story. And you know I think I had the most uh, fun and kind of like very uh, you know enriching experience when working on the drop, the bass meditation, the sunrise base meditation, because you know I was passionate about the music. You know I had a hand helping to curate the playlist and just conceptualize, kind of that workout. You know, obviously, I know you guys talked about the original base meditation that came out, I think in 2021, somewhere early, like around the time I started, but this was kind of, you know, influenced by that, obviously, and I think that, yeah, that it told the story, you know, from start to finish, both with your body and with your mind, and that's what I like to do.
Dave:I mean, not everything is going to be like that. Some things are just going to be. Let's just have some fun, you know. But even if there's a story to be told, sometimes in like the song titles, like I will on occasion request things are, you know, moved you know they don't have to listen to me, but like if I feel are, you know, moved? You know they don't have to listen to me but like if if I feel like you know the song titles tell a story in a different order, I might be like let's just move that around.
MJ:I like that idea. So you brought up one of my all time favorites categories, the drop base meditation. That first workout that came out, but I was waiting for so long for more of them. So when the first week that um supernatural went to, monday drops versus daily drops we were gifted with the drop, two of them, a high and a medium, and you are responsible for the medium. The coolest thing about this medium. First of all, the breathwork triangles. Can we talk about those? Were those your idea? Yeah.
Dave:Yeah, and I'm glad that you brought that up, because I you know there's a lot of great feedback that we've gotten about that workout, um, but there hasn't been that much, uh, about the breathwork triangles. And for me, um, it's not like a novel concept. But you know, over the past couple of years I have been focusing on my mind and body a lot more and meditation is something that you know is I used to kind of like pan as being, like you know, hippy dippy or something, and but now I've learned to accept it and it's become a daily thing, literally every day. I do a nighttime meditation, but sometimes I do during the day as well, and I do a lot of just breath work. So I wanted a way to try to incorporate that in Supernatural without, you know, trying to reinvent the wheel, so to speak.
Dave:And you know, um, and you know, uh, doc has a lot of really great meditations, yes, um, and you know he also actually has one on box breathing, which it was kind of like the inspiration for the breathwork triangles. Essentially, there's no wrong way to do it, but you just let the triangles and the sound of the triangles and the tone in the music just kind of dictate when to inhale, exhale, hold, you know, rinse, repeat, and I think that in the beginning of that workout kind of sets you up for success and it actually comes back, I think just for a little bit in the second half of the song and I feel like it's a great time to just like recenter and then, you know, blow your way through the rest.
MJ:Yes, most definitely. And the breathing being reminded to breathe is something the coaches tell us to do all the time. Right, and it's so important when you're working out, when you're exercising, and I feel like it really sets the tone for that workout. In a way, it opens you up, you're getting really in touch with the way your body feels, how the oxygen coming in feels, and it just sets you in a good spot for the beginning of this workout to give it your all. It is a medium. However, if you go into it with full intensity, full force, feel the music, it is like a high for me and that's because I just love that workout so much. There's also some new, different tales in that workout that I find very interesting.
Dave:Yeah, so I think that's something that I had pocketed from, I think, an accident at one point and it's something that I knew that was capable we were capable of doing with our tools that we have. But it was kind of like you know, they're the same tails that we use for turns, you know. So they're typically, you know I think somebody else has mentioned it but sometimes you call them flag turns. You turn to the side, the double horizontal strikes the only time that you'll see them, um, you can call them turntails, chevron tails. I think there was people calling them vibration tails because they make their controllers vibrate more. Um, you know anything, uh.
Dave:But there's just something about kind of like, uh, trying to add something new aside from just the breathwork stuff throughout the workout, um, that kind of connected both the sunrise and sunset, uh, together, and I think that, even though it's not a huge difference, I think it just lends itself to you know, the flowiness and the direction, because literally, they're a bunch of arrows, and what do arrows do? They tell you where to go. And it's like you know what does meditation do? It tells you where to go, it tells you what to do, you know, um, or it lets you be you. So I think, like having more, I guess arrows um does make it feel a little more meditative you know?
MJ:Yeah, I agree, I love that workout, man. The day that it came out I was so excited. I freaked out because it had been years and did not disappoint. Dude, such a fantastic workout. It's in my bookmarks, I save it, I play it when I need to just get in touch with myself and sort of let go and get outside of my own head, because it allows for that. It gives you the space. The movement encourages it, leanne encourages it. It's just, oh, chef's kiss.
Dave:Great, great work. Leanne was really really, really like home run with the coaching on that one, and our curators are really amazing and it was just a pleasure working on that and you know I, you know we'll see what happens in the future.
MJ:Yeah, we'll see. I'm hoping that the base meditations are something that we see more of. I made sure to write, to write supernatural, and tell them that please, please, more of those.
Dave:Yes, definitely I would. I would love that as well. There's so much, you know. There's a lot of stuff there too that's not just fully electronic music that still has similar elements, you know. But yeah, I think it's like that was just yeah, still my it's like my life's favorite workout too, I think.
MJ:Is it she loves it.
Dave:One of. Yeah, she plays that one a lot and then she plays the full body. Chills like that somewhat older power workout.
MJ:It's a fantastic workout. Do you have songs in that workout?
Dave:I don't.
MJ:I think that came out somewhere in my earlier days if I'm not mistaken so maybe it was in 2022, but earlier or something like that, it was early. I know that politic. The Coldplay song is a Lowry song yes confess to that um. I absolutely love that workout so that's why I was like Dave do you have songs in that workout?
Dave:I don't know about, and full circle that's why I was like Dave, do you have songs in that workout I don't know about? And full circle. That's why you know when I found out that he even the fact that Chelsea, who is the curator on that one, the environments were intentionally chose into the cool down on the first one goes into the warmup on the second. So it's just a story. You know Um and yeah, I um that was, yeah, it was super fun.
MJ:So I recommend, if anyone's looking for a killer, killer workout, to play the original medium that came out a few years ago. I'll pop it up on the screen. If you're watching YouTube, then Dave's medium, then all back to back to back, and if you don't leave that workout feeling at peace but also energized and just, it's just. Oh, it's an experience, it is a story, for sure.
Dave:You can't see it on the screen right now, but I still get, you know, like goosebumps, like. All the time I get that frisson I think it's called frisson Essentially that feeling, you know the, the chills and the goosebumps like I get. That that's triggered a lot by sound, smell, touch. You know a lot of different things, but even just talking about the thing that gives me the chills will give me the chills sometimes. So it's like cool.
Dave:You know it did it's. I guess it's dopamine, but um not exactly sure the science behind that, but has something to do with dopamine yes, most definitely.
MJ:And speaking of dopamine, I have to bring up another workout. It's another medium flow workout of yours and it's an artist series and it's Florence the Machine. I just played it yesterday. I love that workout. I love that workout. I will say I make my own sort of quick hit-ish with it. I play the first four songs and I leave. Dog Days are over because I play that in another workout all the time. So when I'm looking for.
MJ:I want to play as many of my favorite workouts as possible. I'll cut one song out of something, cause I know I'll play it in this workout over here. You know, um, yeah, dude, cosmic love.
Dave:Yeah, that's cosmic love and you've got the love. Are the two that I did and that worked out, and I'm pretty sure that Lowry did the other two, I'm not mistaken.
MJ:So it's kind of similar. It does make sense.
Dave:Yeah, I, yeah, that was one of my favorite maps, for sure. Cosmic love because the juxtaposition of like the hard and soft moments in that song it's just like kind of like almost like hit you know, like interval training almost, because there are just these flowy moments and then there's these drumming moments and there's like, yeah, so it's uh, uh, she's. Florence is an amazing singer and the band is amazing and this, yeah, I loved that.
MJ:Were you a fan of Florence before?
Dave:um, you took on this workout or those songs, yeah, Um yeah, I uh actually got the opportunity to catch her at a festival a couple of years. A couple years, I have no perception of time same um either.
Dave:uh, I'm pretty sure I went to montreal a couple times for a festival and, uh, you know they were one of the headliners and, um, even not being like super close, you could feel like her energy and the band's just energy from so far away. And yeah, um, yeah, so I, I, yeah, I love a lot of music. Um, I wouldn't say I'm like the biggest fan ever. I probably don't know all every single song I've ever put out, but the ones that I do know I know very well. Um, and yeah, that that one just spoke to me, yeah, yeah, well, I'm.
MJ:I'm glad because you can feel that it spoke to you. You could. You could tell you were a fan of the song just based on the mapping alone, but to me that map stands up to the test of time. Every time I get in I find something new, some new way of moving in there. That's just different than the time before. You know what I mean. I really enjoy that set. Yeah, I think that that was probably the the time before you know what I mean. I really enjoy that set.
Dave:Yeah, I think that that was probably the first time that I used like the super long tails, Like I mean, I was starting to get a little braver. Um, you know, cause, as choreographers we have, we have, you know, shared things that we use that are the most commonly used things and everyone has versions of those things. But you know, we can also go in and create new things and I think like, yeah, I felt like that song deserved some experimentation.
MJ:I'm glad you experimented. Please experiment, dude, because if that's what's coming out of your experiments, you're doing a good job. Doing a great job, thanks. So actually I have a couple of artist series workouts, but I'm going to stay with Flo. This one I sort of had a feeling was coming out because we kept getting Madonna songs and other workouts and I started noticing this pattern in Supernatural. Back then it was like, oh, we're getting this song and I bet this is going to be an artist series soon. And artist series Madonna came out and I may have squealed like oh man. I recorded myself and every single one of these songs in my pajamas. I was so excited. Yes, yes.
MJ:In my pajamas I mean this whole list which songs from the Madonna were yours? Do you remember this whole list? Which songs from the Vendano were yours Do?
Dave:you remember, actually, the entire workout, but I think two of them I want to say Vogue and Like a Prayer were, I think, asia Maps originally. Okay, that I updated but yeah, yeah, the entire workout I think. Yeah, that was like one of the first, I think that was the first artisers I did, you know, on my own, whatever. But, um, right, yeah, I just again, I'm not a madonna stan stan, she's a queen, don't get me wrong. But I just have a connection through my mom, who is a really huge fan and, like I mentioned before, I used to do aerobics and I felt like I needed to hop on that one.
MJ:The sentiment connection like, uh, I needed to hop on that one.
Dave:um, you know, uh, the sentiment basically to your mom yes, yes, and it's kind of like in her honor because, uh, she passed when I was younger and I feel like, uh, even though she doesn't wasn't here when, like vr fitness was around, I can just tell that she would. She would freaking love it, you know, and I tried to like channel her, vibe her, like you know, electricity, and just like put that into the workout, um, and you know, it definitely was like a cathartic release, um, you know, I don't necessarily like um, yeah, I don't talk about that that much, but I do think that. But maybe that helps, like you know, with the whole process.
MJ:I think, so yeah. I think the connection that you have and the memories that you have of your mother and being an aerobic centric, I'm sure back then you know Madonna was huge back then. That's for me. I'm not a Madonna stan either. Madonna was huge back then For me. I'm not a Madonna stan either, but when I was growing up it was massive for me when I was a kid growing up in the 80s.
MJ:So I could see why you would want to pick that to honor your mom and just the whole experience listening to the music and mapping it for movement, probably seeing your mom in your brain going oh, she would have moved like this to this song. So let's add that I think that's really cool that you were able to, to have that experience for yourself, but also to give it to the world. So we, when we play that workout, we're sort of honoring your mom.
Dave:That's how I feel. Yeah, let's say, you know, and there's like there's nothing better than that, because you can't. You can't change the past and you know you're living in the now and you want the now to shape your future. So I think like, yeah, if that's how that energy is put into the world and helps other people, then I'm all for it. Yeah, I know there's a lot of people out there who, you know, have lost friends and family members, and I know that people post about it all the time in the community. And the fact that you know that I can technically help other people going through similar things, it's all a full circle and makes me feel whole. Yeah, yeah.
MJ:That's amazing Because Supernatural really. I know we touched on it earlier, but the combination of being in VR, moving, hearing the coaches, hearing the music it is just a very cathartic experience for everyone. And then you have music that you grew up with or you know. Music, just like smell, brings memories and feelings up, and to experience that while moving in VR in these gorgeous environments is unlike anything I ever thought possible. Honestly, you know.
Dave:Yeah, just a few short years ago.
Dave:It's like you know, it's definitely yeah, it's hard to. It's hard to really imagine a time before that, even though it wasn't that long ago, Like you know, like five years ago I mean, I knew I technically had a VR headset. I had like a Galaxy here that you put your phone in or whatever and you can do a few games or whatever. But it was only four and a half years ago that I got a first quest and I really didn't know that this stuff existed because it kind of didn't. And now we're here at a really awesome place and I think that there's a lot of people discovering that, this amazing blend of music and movement and immersion for the first time, and I'm all for it.
MJ:Yeah, yeah, I'm into it Boxing. Yeah, yeah, I'm into it boxing. I want to talk about your boxing because this week, this week, you had a pros only boxing come out and I believe it is the first pros only boxing you've met.
Dave:That is a hundred percent correct. Um, yeah, I, I, I do feel like I uh I think like medium flow and high box is kind of like if I were to pick an intensity and modality in each. Those are the ones that I feel like are my, like my, cues on, you know right, yeah, um, but I think that I tend to kind of be on the minus side often because I like to, with boxing like I don't have more defense and not be so like flurry, heavy and stuff like that.
Dave:So I was a little like what's the word Intimidated by pros, because we've had a lot of them come out and it can be very polarizing and I don't think that that was what was actually preventing me from doing it. It was just like I think I had to, you know, just to get a little more confidence. And then, yeah, that came out and I'm very interested to see how that is received because I know it's still on probably the minus side for pros, but not necessarily a high either.
MJ:Right, I would agree with that assessment and the fact that it is called one foot in the rave. It's just so fitting for you, this being, uh, your first pros. Only, I thought it was fun. Um, you had a lot of multi-lane work going on and I'm a huge fan of multi-lane work. I thought you did that very well. Um, a lot of defensive movement, a lot of uh slip holds that I enjoyed. Um, the combinations engaged my brain there. It was trickery, but it wasn't like flurry flurry, flurry, flurry, flurry. You know it didn't. Yes, it didn't hurt to try and hit the targets. I don't know how else to say it.
MJ:Sometimes flurries they don't allow you to set back up properly, you know 100%.
Dave:This was good this was good, this was good, I think in my mind I have, you know, an analytical approach to most um most stuff. You know I do at work, like you know where I. There's a little bit of balance and symmetry and obviously it's not going to be a hundred percent symmetric, you know, depending on like dance changes and the length of the song and all those factors.
Dave:But I do feel like I make a considerable effort to create as much symmetry as possible without it making it feel like repetitive or boring and like you know um, I think in this one in particular, uh, I started to experiment with like minor like level changes, which is not something that I normally was doing in boxing, because I feel like, uh, if you do it too much, and what I mean by level change, obviously I think you know what I'm talking about.
Dave:But for people who don't like, it's just placing you know, boxing targets like at slightly lower hired kind of levels than they normally would be like. You know, know, I've been using ducks under duck hold we call them duck holds, like you know or a duck holds uh, uh, like lower duck, or a duck hook, where you put like a hook underneath the duck. You know, um, I've been using that. But aside from that, I basically put the targets where they typically are, um, and in this one I was trying to kind of lead you into these things. So if there was a series of straight punches and then at the end of that series was, um, you know, a duck hook, there would be a little bit of descending. You know, uh, I'm not sure if that was really like visible or noticeable, but it was very minor and I still felt like I did the job you know, um, and yeah, I think like uh, it definitely ramped up from the start to finish um.
Dave:so I definitely want to do more in the future and I'd like to do a lot of different other genres too. Yeah, Besides just EDM yeah don't get me wrong, it was great.
MJ:Yeah, exactly, and it was the first time Supernatural's gotten a Paul Oakenfold song too. I was so surprised by that.
Dave:I was like oh cool.
MJ:Look at us, we're a Paul Oakenfold song too. I was so surprised by that. I was like oh cool, look at us, we're getting Paul Oakenfold in here oh yeah, yeah, I could see you doing like a punk style high boxing or pros boxing maybe.
Dave:Definitely that would be fun. Maybe, um, definitely be fun. Um, yeah, I think that, uh, there was another workout that, now that you brought that up. That um, punk you um, oh yeah high boxing. It's called need for speed yes so, yes so that obviously was my subtitle. That was my suggestion.
MJ:Was it.
Dave:Yeah, yeah, I mean, yeah, I think that obviously, if you don't know, I like puns and kind of dad joke puns, things that are probably not that funny, but it's kind of like aha, bad joke puns, things that are probably not that funny, but it's kind of like aha, anyway. So, because these are all like high tempo punk songs and there's knee strikes that just immediately. Oh, and there's a song, the Damned Neat, neat, neat.
Dave:I don't want to say it three times fast. So I don't know. There's just something about um that that just spoke to me and I think it was the first. Yeah, punk you with new stripes and it's high boxing and I feel like the um density of the targets was a little higher than the standard high boxing, uh, but I thought it was like a fun raucous like 13 minutes or something Like it was pretty short for a full workout because the songs are short. But I think that's my top five most fun I've had mapping a workout, I think.
MJ:Oh well, that's good to know. So you said medium flow is your sweet spot and high boxing is your sweet spot. Typically, yeah, there was a girl power with Tawana, unbreakable spirit, and that's a 16 minute one and it has classic supernatural songs in it like bulletproof titanium. It's also got another Florence, the machine song in spectrum.
Dave:Yes, yes.
MJ:Do you remember mapping that one Cause that one's sort of a high plus ish If I'm honest, honest funny.
Dave:funny because I I will have to double verify this, but I am 99.9 sure that that was the first high box I did. I think before that I had done some, maybe at a medium, some low, whatever that was the first, I'm pretty sure, first high boxing I did, and I did it kind of recently and although we've added a lot of new types of movements, I still think that it's still a lot of fun. You know, and empowering, and you know I and empowering, and you know, uh, I love the music and the message. And you know, yeah, I think, uh, it's not like reinventing the wheel, but it just hits all the places that it needs to, at least for me. So right.
MJ:So when you get a workout I know the way you know the curators come up with the set list then they kind of have an idea of the category. So girl power, for example, and you get that and you look at it. Are you like basing the movements on like powerful moves, like you want to? You said you like to tell a story, so is that part of your process? You know you get it from the curators and you're like, okay, so this is girl power, this is just dance, let's make sure they feel like fish in here.
Dave:Or, you know, make sure they're super powerful is that kind of the way you do that yeah, yeah, I mean, it does vary, obviously, from like flow to boxing, I think, with flow, depending on what you know the music is and if there's like music videos and stuff like that, like.
Dave:I think a lot of us like to check out music videos or like, even like, if there are like kind of like homebrew choreographer choreo videos on youtube sometimes check that stuff out um other times I'll go in line to not not. You know, it really depends um with boxing. I feel like there's still some inspiration to be taken from that stuff, but it's not as like easy like, because unless there's like a fight going on which is kind of rare, but yeah, I think that I don't go from start to finish really ever.
Dave:I kind of go wherever I go, yeah, and I think in some ways, going from like A to B to C to D or 1 to whatever I think can kind of. It's not artificial, but it's like almost like forced, like you know that you're pushing it a little higher and like you could kind of feel it. And while that's good, I think sometimes like there's like more mystery, mystique, I around just kind of having things not necessarily feel like like they were literally done one after another. Um, so, yeah, if I can, I will usually hop into like the first song and then maybe like hop into like the first song and then maybe, like you know, it just depends on you know what I'm doing, but, um, I feel like I almost never do like from start to finish Right.
MJ:Got it.
Dave:Yeah.
MJ:I think that would be my way as well. It's like which song do I want to? I'll just pick a song. I won't start with the actual set list. That is probably the way I would do it too.
Dave:Yeah, and it depends also, like you know, if they're like something like the drop, if a lot of the songs are like the same tempo or something like there could be patterns, that that you build like for boxing, like certain combos, like you know, jab, know, jab, cross, hook, uppercut, slip, and then you take that combo and you can probably use that combo in most of the songs in different ways and then sometimes, like, if you leave notes for whoever's coaching it, you know they'll talk about it in the warm-up.
Dave:That way you're ready for it like right. So in a way it kind of does help, at least for me to not try to, um, yeah, go from a to b, so like everything in life.
MJ:So exactly, it's just I, I'm not an A to B person. Then to see, I'm like all over, let's just go everywhere, yeah.
MJ:You mentioned that the Madonna Artist Series Flow was your first like full Artist Series workout, that you were responsible. Yeah Well, you know. A month later the Queen RS series came out, and I know in y'all's world it's not like you work on this, then that, and then this, and then that. It comes out in all sorts of different times, but it came out to us, to the community, a month later. Medium boxing Queen. Are you responsible for the whole workout too, or do you work with multiple people? Oh, cool.
Dave:Oh, that one, that one I think was like I would say, all the maps in that workout are definitely mine uh but I don't.
Dave:I don't know if there were ones that existed in some way before, because we've had Queen, but there were times that we, you know I think, lost some songs and then they came back or whatever. And also, I feel like it was like when boxing was introduced, there wasn't a ton. I don't know, I really don't know, but I'm pretty sure that those were all original maps, if not four out of five, and yeah, that was so much fun as well. Another kind of like you know, music that my parents listened to and it's like another nod to them as well. But yeah, I think parents listen to and it's like another nod to them as well. Um, but uh, yeah, I think.
Dave:Uh, while I loved every single map, um, I would say bicycle race and probably, um, somebody to love you know yeah are my two favorites, just because they're like polar opposites yes my school race was chaos and insanity and like what I feel like is going on my brain all the time, and then somebody to love is like the opposite of that. So um uh yeah, that gave me.
MJ:I'm talking about um and, I think, first time I used the, the disco rainbow pride uh joy ball. Oh, you said joy ball. I stopped myself, I don't know if you called that I did, I almost.
Dave:I almost said the other thing, yeah, that thing.
MJ:We don't say that one on this podcast. Hmm, yeah, somebody to love First. First of all, that is a five minute song when you get songs like that that are like four plus minutes long, are you like whoa, what am I gonna do here? What am I gonna do for this entire song? Does it freak you out, that one?
Dave:that one not so much, because it sounds like a couple different songs.
MJ:Yeah.
Dave:With a lot of Queen. It's kind of like A or B, we Will Rock. You is kind of like Stomp, Stomp Clap. That is the song basically. But then you have things like Lean In Rhapsody and Somebody to Love that are like kind of like multiple short songs sandwiched together, woven, you know, like kind of yeah, and I think with that song in particular, yeah, I think if it's something that's like repetitive in five minutes, I feel like I would have a little bit more almost disdain for it. Um, because I want to keep it original and fun. Um, but yeah, that one was super great that's changing and in multiple songs.
MJ:In one song is probably the best to map, I would imagine. Yes, you can use your creativity and do so many different things in it.
Dave:Yep I know that, like with the flow workout, um, I know there is that was like one of the first, I think I really collaborative maps. I didn't work on the bo Bohemian Rhapsody when that first came out, but I know there was four choreographers on that one and I mean it deserved it. I mean it's a long song with a lot of parts, you know, and yeah, and then the only other that I can off the top of my head, free Bird's, the only other song that had that many choreographers on that and that I did work on. But that's a totally different workout.
MJ:It is. But this gave me a really cool idea and I'm going to put it out in the universe we need more longer songs so that we can get you guys working together on one song, Because if we only have Bohemian Rhapsody and Freebird as like a legit multi-choreographer mapped song, we need longer songs Nine minutes. You know some tool, some tool we can we get some tool please?
Dave:oh man, I mean me and justin are already um trying to. Yeah, um, I that it would be great, um, I think that the there are some logistical things, like because obviously, obviously there aren't as many um, first off, you know, and then out of that, like there are some that may endure for a while and aren't necessarily like if the fog is that long.
Dave:There usually is at least a few points that are very low Too slow, yeah, exactly so, unlike Freebird, where it ramps and then never goes down. So I think that I agree and I feel like it would be great to have, like you know I think this has been mentioned before but like a whole, like DJ set or something like you know, where there's no real gaps, like I'll do it, I'll do the dj set, no, um, but uh, yeah, that would be great because, like I think people are always asking for ways to chain things together and make longer workouts. So, um, you know, I think that would be a cool way to collaborate and also get smaller pieces of content out there.
MJ:Yeah, that would be kind of neat. And then, with that kind of music as it's ebbing and flowing while there would be no true break, um, it would be a really good hit workout. For sure I could see that.
Dave:Yeah, a hundred percent. Um, yeah, it would be great. Um, I think, uh, we had some things that kind of like are in that vein, but they always have the traditional, you know, a couple of seconds interstitial between the two. Um, so, yeah, the two.
MJ:So yeah, hmm, That'd be neat. So do you have a favorite move that you like to use often in your maps? Flo. Let's go with Flo first.
Dave:So I think it's hard to say. I feel like I don't use it as much as some other people, but um a lot of like single arm, kind of flowy movements, like we have um something that we refer to as a, a duster tail, which is very, very commonly used. It's just kind of like kind of a back and forth.
Dave:you know, Um, and I think, like uh, it's a kind of like kind of a back and forth. You know, um, and I think, like uh, it's a very simple move, but it can be used in conjunction with you know other things and sometimes like you know you can be getting to.
Dave:I think, like cosmic love is a good example of where I was using that. And then the other I'm doing kind of like, you know, interdependent things. So I like, I like that, um, you know, I like having you know getting to separate things but that are still, uh, readable and fun and doable. And yeah, I like that using windmills, those are super fun, not overusing them, but just the little hints of windmills in there. And then I would say, if I do some multi-lane work, I like just what I call like that range of motion or whatever moves where, especially into squats, for some reason, I don't know why it feels good.
Dave:But you know, even if it's just like two outward facing tails into, that's like kind of I don't know if that's a me signature thing, but when I do multi-win I do that a lot where it's like two tails into, you know, left and right, um, downward hits into a spot, and that for me, even though it you could technically do the same exact movement, um, because the targets come to you, I think the visual cue is telling you let's do a little bit more, let's put a little more into it. You know, and I think, yeah, that's the same with all the multi-length stuff, because if you have like forward facing, only on, you're not going to see it, but if you don't like, I think it just promotes that extra right, I agree.
MJ:Yes, it encourages you to be bigger, to be flowier, and then the power of going out and then down into a squat. Love that, love that.
Dave:That's yes, that's a power hit.
MJ:You know that makes you want to be powerful. It makes you feel powerful. Um, you spoke about windmills and it reminds me of a song. It's one of my it's in one of my absolute favorite workouts. You have the two last songs in it. It's joy, go do it with Mark. It's from February of 2023. I remember the day that came out, I played it three times back to back. I recorded. I sent two friends separate messages. I said record the end. You record, go do, send it to me. Let's do this. You know, like right away, immediately, and you have the end end, which featured this complex two I don't even know how to explain it the windmills. It was so new at the time, no one had ever done that in that way, um, and it was so fun. It's like the longest windmill section, um inflow and it was really fun.
Dave:Um, it's a great workout. Yeah, I, that, actually. I. I actually was not familiar with that song in particular, even though I've heard mr lives before. Um, and for some reason, the first thing that comes up is mark's joke about the end not being the end, like you know. Um, that's obviously right at the top and I'm like, yeah, so anyway, um, besides the end not being the end, uh, yeah, I think, like the last, like. I don't know. Half of that song is windfalls it is, it is it's, but not overwhelming.
Dave:It's still a comfy, maybe even kind of bounces between a high minus and high plus in some areas. And yeah, I just felt like that's another one where it's like the music totally dictates Not that it doesn't ever I mean it always dictates what you're going to do. But that one really stood out. It was like okay, I'm going to. You know. I didn't even need to question what I was doing there when it happened, you know.
MJ:You knew immediately. And so the back half of that song when the windmills happen, they happen twice and it's for a long amount of time. But then towards the back half you start spinning us and spinning us and I absolutely love that part. And then we come back into the windmills in the original portal and it's like three portals. Oh man, it's fantastic. That is a really fun song map. It gives me all the feels. But yes, the next one go do by Jonesy. That is a magical song, then a magical map in a magical location. It's like the trifecta of things. Yes, tell us about GoDo.
Dave:Okay, this has a good story, because I have kind of for as long as I can remember, probably since high school, been obsessed with Iceland, and I have you know been into a lot of Icelandic artists, bands, musicians, all that stuff, and Jónsi is the singer of Sigur Rós and they are an Icelandic band that is really huge ineland and the rest of the world, but just not necessarily like radio music, because it's kind of like a little more abstract. You know um. Anyway, this side project, that that he did um, was a little bit less abstract and a little even though there's still some kind of funky stuff in there it it sticks well, sticks well alongside indie rock, you know, and it's not as like cause his band was more like walls of sound. You know, this is like more approachable music that's fun and happy, not like, oh my God, this is so intense, what's on? I love it, but what's going on, you know um.
Dave:So that song I actually got the chance to see live too, which was really amazing. Years ago they did, I think, like one. He did one tour um when he came to new york.
Dave:I saw it and as soon as I saw that come, that song come through um iteration I was like, yes, please, please, please, um, and not only, did you know, I mapped it, but obviously I suggested not obviously, but I suggested doing it in the blue lagoon, um, because you know, not only is he from Iceland, but that's where I spent my honeymoon and it's actually the first thing I did when we got to Iceland was went straight to the lagoon. So, yeah, it just kind of I felt super connected to that song, that location, everything about it. And I think we used the song again recently and I don't think it was in iceland, um, but but there was also a little there's some different moves in that too, just like very minor changes, um, so I'll give it a pass.
MJ:Well, I'm going to be honest with you. It broke a mine in Julia's brain, the new version because one. We're very connected to the location of certain maps and for us that song, that map is connected to, to Iceland, to the blue lagoon. So it was an updated map and you updated a little bit and I was like, well, what has he done to our song? And then it was in a new environment, you know, um yeah but it's great, it's still great.
MJ:It did throw us off. We were like is this different? Is this new? Is this the same? We can't tell. We were like going back and forth doing this workout together, but I love that for you, you have this emotional connection to the song, to the location, to the, to the band. It came out in your movements and now we, in turn, have an emotional connection to the song, to the band, to the, to the workout.
MJ:A hundred percent have an emotional connection to the song to the band to the, to the workout we picked go do for our huge end of the year, side-by-side last year when I told you.
MJ:Oh yeah, I remember that I told Julia Okay, so our last record was 110 people, this year, let's beat that. And she was like marla, so we picked go do because it was just perfect. The whole vibe of it, the idea, mark's coaching in that one is top notch and, um, yeah, we wanted the whole community, anyone who wanted to send in a video, to experience that map and that song. And, uh, you did a beautiful job on it, dude, beautiful job, one of my all time favorite top 10.
Dave:Awesome, that's great. And I think, like you know, there's some music that I feel like there maybe people wouldn't necessarily think of as like workout music, but I think it's more like, um, yeah, I think it might not be something that you listen to every day or whatever, but if the movements are there and the pieces kind of fall into place, then it can become, like you know, exhilarating, even if it's something that maybe if you listen just like on a random Wednesday on Spotify or something, it would just be like maybe a skip, I wouldn't. But I'm just saying, like you know, there are definitely songs out there that feel amazing to move to, but I wouldn't listen to.
MJ:Right, it's um. It's a funny sort of juxtaposition. If you think about it like you wouldn't listen to it normally you wouldn't think, oh, I'll dance in this, I'll move in this. But you put it in an environment, you create a map, map, you put it all together with a coach and you're like I can't not think about moving to this song. Now you know um there's so many like that that I've discovered in supernatural um part of the magic that you guys create.
Dave:Yeah, it's definitely a juxtaposition, like you said, and I think, uh, I'm always amazed at what, like when I joined the community, like and I saw, like you know, people moving and really enjoying music that I would not expect them to like a lot of like dubstep and like really gritty electronic music, like you know, I mean, the centipede challenge is like right, kind of like a really great example of that. Like I mean, in reality, would 90 of the people who played that workout and really got into that song have listened to it organically? No, I don't think so. Like they would have probably heard it and been like what the heck? Yes, exactly.
MJ:So yeah, it's. It's just. You know, the right is my job. I'm a choreographer, I make maps. You know how does that evolve? Or has it evolved from then to now what you're putting out?
Dave:No, it's exactly the same. I've never changed anything.
MJ:Well it's maybe. I know, I know you are. You are the. I need to let people know that you are the biggest goofball. You like to troll people. You like to joke. Your dad jokes your puns. You're absolutely hilarious, but I always mess up like really quickly you do you do, you do, you can't. You're like a little kid, you're like oh, oh. I got to tell him the truth, I got to tell him the truth.
Dave:Just kidding, just kidding, just kidding.
MJ:Yeah, boy you, but yeah, I think for me as an outsider, playing your work, going through your workouts, playing some of your super old ones and then playing, say, base meditation, the new medium that you put out I see a lot more freedom. I see a lot more confidence in your movement placements. Um, I see more creativity, like yeah, you're like okay. Well, let's just put this here and see what it feels like. Oh, that feels good. You know, I see progress, I see I think you getting better.
Dave:That makes a lot of sense and I think, uh, you know, it makes a lot of sense.
Dave:And I think, uh, you know, it's been over three years now, um, and I think that I'm not the whole first year but around, like, let's just say the first year was really finding the stride, you know, and kind of like, um, I feel like a lot of it was emulating what I was seeing, like in other maths, you know, and kind of like I feel like a lot of it was emulating what I was seeing, like in other maps, you know, and not really, like you know, venturing too far away from what we call our snippets, you know, what people use, like you know.
Dave:So it was the my map, but comprised of map, but comprised of kind of free, like um, predetermined pieces, essentially like a puzzle that you know, the pieces were already created and I put the puzzle together, whereas, like now, I feel like I'm not only creating the pieces themselves and then creating the puzzle, if that analogy makes sense it totally makes sense, I get that yeah, and it feels like, um, that also coincides with my wellness journey, uh, which started around the time you know pretty much that I started supernatural and has, you know, gotten exponentially more important to me and has grown.
Dave:I think that they there's definitely parallels, like you know, uh, between moving movement and between meditation and between, uh, just caring about what I eat and like not like going out, partying and stuff like that, like all those things kind of go hand in hand and come together to, I feel like, inspire and help me put out better things and think more clearly and be more creative yeah.
MJ:Yeah, I totally. I can totally see that, and you know one of my. I was going to ask you, I can totally see that, and you know one of my. I was going to ask you how has supernatural impacted your life? And I think you just answered that without being prompted to answer that. You know um just the whole journey of bettering yourself and in the end, it allows you to be more creative, put out better work, um give to the world better, um yes, and it's beautiful full full circle.
Dave:You know, uh, you know, obviously I mentioned this, but I just there are so many people out there who were, were where I was, you know, like, uh, where I just couldn't really find something that I liked and I kind of just thought that that was going to be this. You know, the status quo going forward that I wouldn't, you know, ever really, uh, I wasn't like really too upset about it, which is something that I accepted.
Dave:You know, um, that I probably wouldn't be like a gym person or I wouldn't be fit or whatever, um, but you know, not even just from a physical standpoint, but from an emotional standpoint too. You know it's like everyone goes through things, whether it's grief, or you know health related things, or you know even like financial things. You know, just everybody is always going through something and you can't really compare people's problems. But the one thing that I feel like is consistent is that there is always something you can do about it, and if that something is supernatural and it's helping people, it just like you know.
MJ:That just motivates me even more, you know yeah, it's the positive feedback loop, you know um 100 I definitely see that.
MJ:And supernatural I know you know, but supernatural has helped me in my own life, regulate my emotions, help me feel better about myself, all around health, like it's really changed my entire life. Sometimes I go as dramatic as it has saved my life more times than than I can count. And what you guys do every day makes a huge impact. Makes a huge impact in so many of us and I hope you can take that in and and know that we really mean it genuinely when we say that. You know they do.
Dave:Yeah, I do absorb that. I know that. The others do. You know, there's definitely some like small, like subconscious, like imposter syndrome, that kind of creeps up sometimes, just you know. But, um, there's a really easy way to you know combat that is just to look at the community and just like, just read things and your feedback, or just play a workout not even one of my own just like like I'm a part of this and even if I didn't like, even if I didn't have this job, I think that I would have significantly benefited from supernatural, because I've had over a year of being an athlete and I totally like it was obviously setting me on the right path you know, so, yeah, I think things would be very different without it, and I do think that everything happens for a reason, which actually kind of brings me to something that I was going to mention really early on, something that I was going to mention really early on, but I I don't know if you've ever been curious about what my Instagram handle was.
Dave:Yes, I just didn't want to pry and be like hey, dave, what is this about? Yeah, okay, so it's kind of like, uh, I don't know if I'd call it a pun, um, but so my last name is pronounced well, we pronounce it cassara. Um, you know, uh, and the phrase Que sera sera, which is not actually Spanish or Italian or French, it's kind of just like it's a song from the 50s, I think it was like Doris Day, and it's supposed to mean whatever will be will be. That was like my family mantra growing up. You know it's like whatever will happen, will happen and, like you know, you have to make the best of it and move up. You know it's like whatever will happen will happen and, like you know, you have to make. You know, make the best of it and move forward. And so, hey, sarah was my dj name, my alias, like all that kind of stuff, and so that's why that's actually my um instagram handle, but I do feel, like um, it has become my mantra, for sure.
Dave:Um, and you know, I think that there's so many things that I didn't do. I wouldn't be here right now, um, and I'm so grateful for that. Like yeah, yeah, I got a targeted ad for Supernatural on Facebook which came full circle, and you know, if I didn't see that ad, you know, then I might not be here If I didn't interact with something that triggered that ad in the first place. I know, yeah, there's just so many like cold, I guess, butterfly effect, if you will situations that really really just lead up to today and tomorrow. So that was just a little tidbit.
MJ:Yeah. So basically your mantra and the whole way you live your life is let it be what it's going to be, embrace it.
Dave:Yeah, I like everything. You know it's very cliche, but everything happens for a reason and you know just it was. It's not a novel idea to live in the now, but what I like to say is to live in the now, learn from the past and work towards the future. Um, because all three of them exist, you know. They've been just in different states of time and I think that you have to kind of accept all three past, present, future to have the best now.
MJ:You're absolutely right about that. You're absolutely right about that. When you put it in that way, I have a trouble staying in the now. I'm a future person and occasionally I get stuck in the past and so bringing it forward to now, here in this moment, this present moment, what we're doing, um, everything we've it's led up to this moment. Everything we've it's led up to this moment. You know, and I'm a big believer in that, so I totally relate with that. And now I know where your Instagram handle came from, and instead of being like what is this dude on?
Dave:And how to pronounce my name and how to pronounce your name.
MJ:Cause I did not say your last name at the beginning, that's fine. It's fine, it makes total sense.
Dave:Yes, yes, and it's actually a good. It's good that I didn't start with that, honestly, because, like um, it's a nice little tidbit. It is now um, and yeah, it it's just just like a play on my last name and the mantra all in one, and very Dave.
MJ:It's very Dave.
Dave:Exactly, it was either that or dance, dance Davey again, which would also be right.
MJ:But I'm re. I know that's an old school nickname for you, but I'm going to change it up today and it's going to be dance, dance, ravey, sorry, not sorry, that's fine.
Dave:I'm full with that, that's fine 2.0.
MJ:Version 2.0. 6.7.
Dave:I don't know, I feel like we've all gone through way too many. Way more metamorphosis yeah.
MJ:It's a good way to put it. Yeah, good way to put it Joy balls.
Dave:For sure.
MJ:I yeah good way to put it joy balls. For sure I'm gonna bring up joy balls again because they are my favorite. Do you have a favorite one you like to use?
Dave:uh, this probably won't come as a surprise, um, just because of, like, my existence, but, um, I like what we internally call plexus. Uh, but I'm not sure where the name exactly came from, but it's the geometric, almost constellation-looking one that I used in Cosmic Blow, maybe one of the first times I used it. I think that, yeah, I don't know it, just it's kind of like it's one ball that you know is connected by a bunch of lines and kind of grows like almost like an organism, and then it's gone and I don't know. It's just, it's pretty, but it also, I feel like, says something. So it's pretty, but it also, I feel like it says something.
MJ:It's meaningful to you? Yeah, and that's.
Dave:I like geometry.
MJ:Yeah and well, and that's seriously the the theme of this episode for me me, you know, having you here and talking to you, it's something that's woven in through all of this. Is you like? You know you're all about connecting meaningful moments, the now.
Dave:It totally does not surprise me that that's your favorite joy ball and I'm sure you would like use it all the time if you could yes, and I would like an actual, like constellation type, you know like legitimate. I would love if it would be, like you know, ursa Minor, you know like actual constellations. Yes, yes, that's my other alias, by the way.
MJ:Oh really. Oh well, now we know all your aliases yes, yes, yes, yes, um yeah well now I'm really interested to hear your answer to this next question. I've been asking all the choreographers and I thought about taking this question off because I I feel like a lot of you guys answer in the same way.
MJ:I won't be honest but, I'm going to leave it here because I'm interested to know your answer. And if you could like, just poof and do a different job in supernatural trade jobs with someone, you don't have to be good at it, you'd just be going to just do their job because you're interested in it. What job would you? What job would you pick?
Dave:So I feel like I probably should have thought about this more, but something does stand out and I think we have. These are probably a couple of different positions, but I believe they're referred to as technical artists or like a creative lead designer. Basically, they work on things like environments and Easter eggs. You know I'm talking about, no, uh, anyway, environments, joy balls, you know effects, like you know, tails and all these different types of things and, uh, you know, I have obviously experience with design and even more recently with VR, like you know, using Unity, and uh, I just, yeah, something about it, you know, fascinates me and.
Dave:I feel like if I could have like a hybrid job where I did a little bit of that and a little bit of this, that'd be cool.
MJ:That would be really cool and I'm so glad you picked the visual aspect of it, the environments or the joy balls or the tails, and that would be really cool. And I would love to chat with someone from who makes the environments, the 3d environments we're all in Cause. I know it's a multi-step approach. They take pictures, they build things. It's like a whole design. I mean, how cool and involved in the detail, the detail in those environments.
Dave:That's the icing on the cake. You know, it is the icing on the cake.
MJ:Definitely, speaking of cake, julia will kill me if I do not ask you this question. She will come find us and hunt us down. Favorite food I believe you favorite food favorite snack.
Dave:You could give me your favorite snack too, either one. Well, I, I'm like a really really, really, really really big sweet person. Oh, I don't want to pick that as my favorite food, because I feel like if you lived on, let's say, like cookies or something like they probably wouldn't really live very long now. Um, so, food, food, um, you know, my boring answer would be pizza. That would be my boring answer, okay, but I can make it a little bit more spicy by saying Indian, like chicken korma chicken masala, stuff like that, and even more spicy by saying not New York pizza.
Dave:If I'm talking about pizza and not Chicago, there's actually a little lesser known pizza. It's New Haven style, so Connecticut, and it's actually my favorite pizza Bar none. I used to drive like hours to pick up a couple pies. Check it out if you're ever in Connecticut.
MJ:I'm gonna have to now because I've. I don't think I've ever heard about this Connecticut pie.
Dave:Yeah, yeah, and they have some of them in New York now too.
MJ:But I mean, I guess like I'm a bad New Yorker for saying that I was going to say you said not New York pizza. And I'm thinking all of New York homies are about to come for you because they're like what, Really?
Dave:Don't hurt me.
MJ:That's awesome, I could get down with that. So you're bringing the pizza in the Indian food to our potluck. Then Got it.
Dave:Or even together.
MJ:Oh, some chicken parma pizza that sounds fire Right. Is this a thing, or are you making this up, because I feel like you need to make it.
Dave:I'm sure it is. I've had it on flatbread.
MJ:I've had it on flatbread.
Dave:Yeah, I've had it on a flatbread actually, um so with non. So, yeah, yeah, so it's just together there you go um, let's do it. I had chicken karma for dinner last night actually really so that's awesome it's perfect that you said that okay it's actually not spicy at all, that's like it's not so mild, so mild, so mild.
MJ:Yeah, in Indian food dishes it's super mild. Yes, yeah, it's got like little raisins in it too. Oh man, now I know what I'm eating for lunch. Dave's got me all sidetracked on the food now. No, it's Julia's fault. This is Julia's question. Blaming her? I Blame it on her. I should have said her cookies. No, you should. We definitely need to.
Dave:So, as you know, I'm sure, because I know you watch the podcast, I always ask people if they were going to pick an emoji animal to use as a hug reaction. What would you pick? Okay, what would you pick? Okay, I'm gonna turn it and say what would you think I did? Oh gosh, um, I will give you the answer and tell you if you're right, but what do you think I would pick?
MJ:I feel like I need to pull up my keyboard real quick. Um, and look. Okay, here we go, we go. I think it is cheating. I asked this question and don't even know all the animals. I'll be honest when I picked my emoji animal, I stopped looking at him. Okay, I want to say the blue dinosaur, for some reason. No, what is it? It's okay A panda, a panda, oh, why would you pick a panda?
Dave:And the story is basically that that's my wife and I think name is Bear Instead of Babe we say Bear some people do that, you know, uh, but our first halloween, uh, we dressed up as a panda and a koala, and that kind of always stuck with me. I love bears in general, but out of the emoji ones, that's the one I like the most. But I also have this bear, um, and I have a bunch of other bears scattered throughout my office, um, but yeah, the panda, it's just, you know the.
MJ:I like the contrast, I like the pandas in general, um, but yeah, panda, panda, panda I love that, and if I would have been just a little bit more observant I might have gotten that correct.
Dave:You put me on the spot today that's, that's what I do. They don't have puffins, though. I would pick puffins, that's what I was looking for.
MJ:I was like, is there a puffin? Because I know he, you know, makes sense Iceland puffin out. You're sentimental. So I was trying to connect it in my head real quick. I was like, but there's no puffer in here. Man, good detective work. Yeah, I try, I try, I try. So every week we leave the audience with a workout suggestion. Would be awesome if you picked out that suggestion this week um.
Dave:So there's a lot, but I feel like one of the ones top three most like meaning for me would probably be it wasn't the first indestructible, but it was like one of the first when that came back. The medium flow with Mark flow meets body, because start to finish, it's just like they're not bangers but they're bangers, you know. You know it runs the gambit of like that whole indie spirit. You know it sounds kind of like a soundtrack for a movie, which I think a lot of those songs were. But anyway, um, flow meets body.
Dave:Um, that was a lot of new stuff for me and again one of the ones that I, one of the persons I did, I think like completely Um, so that was um. Yeah, that's my recommendation.
MJ:I love that you picked this one because the set starts with a postal service song and, like I, was huge into postal service, like back in the day, and I know, such great heights and older workouts was one of your maps, and so you got to kind of redo it for this one, which I thought was really rad, um, and so we get an updated version for um, such great heights.
Dave:And I've actually done that in low, medium and high. It's like your song, one of the only ones that I've done that in low, medium and high. So yeah, just be on lookout for those.
MJ:The second song, I Feel it All has this move in it where it feels like you're giving yourself a hug. That, yes, that is what is it? Is it really because? Oh, that is what I call a real easter egg, that's and then your wings are wide.
Dave:So there's, yeah, definitely intentional there that's. I didn't even mention that, but, like you know, I definitely try the lyrical stuff like I really um love to do like kind of hugging, kind of motions, when there's like you know, like a sweet disposition. I've got too.
MJ:Yes, I was just getting to that kind of hugging, kind of a hugging motion. I cannot, I love.
Dave:That's hard Heart tells.
MJ:Yeah, yes, them Matt, your sweet disposition man. You. I'm so happy today that this worked. This is another workout that it came out. It dropped and I played back to back to back. Like I played it, got out of the headset, sent messages everyone play this workout. And like I recorded sweet disposition on my first playthrough, I just knew, I just knew I had to capture it. And then sent messages OK, record this record that we're recording this whole set, everyone. So I love that this is your workout suggestion.
Dave:Awesome, yeah, I mean I, this is your workout suggestion. Awesome, um, yeah, I mean I probably should play it again too. Uh, it's been a while, but yeah, when your episode comes out.
MJ:Yes, for sure. Which is now.
Dave:It is for the people, for the audience is now.
MJ:So make sure you now. So make sure you check Dave's journey, make sure he played this workout with us since he suggested it. You know, yes, yes, yes, yes. And when people are done with the workout or any workouts they do very importante Look to the left and rate it Like love, give all the reasons you liked or loved it. You can even hit other and it will generate a email and then you can send detailed feedback, like this song. They made me hug myself when they said feel Like, put that in the email. You know that would be fantastic.
Dave:They want to hear. We see it. Yeah, yeah, we see that stuff.
MJ:So you guys talk about it yeah rating it is uh how they know to give us more like that, or yeah, no, we're not into that today.
Dave:Yeah, it's the easiest, most surefire way to get your opinion heard, and yeah, do it Awesome.
MJ:Well, I just want to say thank you, Dave, for coming on and hanging out with me today and letting the community meet you Now. You guys all know, of course. Mr Rave, that's what I call him. No, his name is Dave, that's fine.
Dave:Well, it's been a pleasure and, yeah, I just super excited about the future, you know the future is bright, very bright.
MJ:For sure, all right see you guys next time. Bye, thanks for joining us on today's episode of for the love of the map. As always, you can join the discussion in the private facebook group and follow along with show updates on instagram and tiktok. Links can be found in the description below. If you find value in the show, please share it with your friends. Your comments, likes and reviews are invaluable and I cannot thank you guys enough. See you next time.