Letting the Force Flow Through You: Supernatural Choreographer Katrin Auch EP|29

This week's special guest - Katrin Auch, a Supernatural choreographer who turned her passion for dance and gaming into a career. From her early experiences with the Oculus Rift and Beat Saber to becoming a crucial part of the Supernatural team, Kat shares her remarkable journey. 

Kat shares her remarkable process behind choreographing workouts, her passion for music and the Star Wars fandom, and her collaborative efforts helping make Supernatural a unique VR experience. From choreographing fluctuating tempos to creating a droid drummer for a Star Wars-themed band, Kat's journey is filled with creativity and community. Tune in for a blend of music, personal stories, and workout tips that showcase the intersection of creativity, technology, and physicality in Supernatural.

Visit the website at: https://fortheloveofthemap.buzzsprout.com

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Chapters

• 0:00 Kat's History with Supernatural
• 10:05 The Welcoming and Supportive Community of Supernatural
• 18:30 Teaching Body Confidence to Beginner SN Athletes
• 30:54 Light Saber?
• 43:11 Artist Wish Lists
• 48:54 Choreographing Songs and Dream Artists
• 55:56 Flow and Movement Exploration in Dance
• 1:10:45 The Future of Virtual Reality
• 1:21:49 Powerful Music
• 1:34:03 Creativity and Collaboration in Mapping
• 1:47:48 Weekly Workout Suggestion: 'Shower Songs'

Transcript

Kat: 0:00

Yes, it's always so good when we can get somebody who's like, yeah, I do not like this music, but you made me like, if you can make somebody enjoy music that they didn't like, yes, that is just like oh, that's a thing you read in my resume is going to tell you that I'm qualified for this job, but here's all the reasons that I am qualified for this job. With any movement, there's two parts of it. There's understanding what you're supposed to do, and then there's letting it sink into your body and then, after it's sunk into your body, then you can do it instinctively, without thinking, because there's like think about it, think about it, connect it and then just do it. The entire company was sobbing, like everybody was crying and in the chat, we're all going oh my.

Kat: 0:43

God, this is so great and we're like all talking to each other and it was just such a powerful thing. Problem solving of boxing makes me happy in a very special way. I always choreograph to that too, so like if you're doing it, like if you do a boxing money, money it possibly is me and you will hear the get, get. It's really there. Sometimes it's better for me to let another choreographer, who I know is going to do a fabulous job, do it, so that I can just enjoy it as a user, not have to suffer through the birth of the baby.

MJ: 1:30

Welcome back to another episode of For the Love of the Map, where we chat all things, supernatural choreography and finding joy in movements. I am your host, mj, and today I'm so excited because we have the absolute honor of Supernatural choreographer Kat on the show today. Guys, welcome, hi. Thank you so glad you could join us today. I have so much to chat with you about because I'm fascinated, I'm absolutely fascinated with your history, all of it. I know we had a little brief discussion pre-interview and I got to learn about you and I was like, oh, the community is going to love her, so I'm so glad you're here today.

Kat: 2:18

Thank you, I'm very happy to be here.

MJ: 2:21

How long have you worked for Supernatural? I just want to ask that right away be here?

Kat: 2:26

How long have you worked for Supernatural? I just want to ask that right away. I have worked since 2020. I joined in December of 2020. And I was actually the very first person that was employed by Supernatural who had been a user before being in there, like not just in as a choreographer, but just at all, which was really funny because, like all of a sudden, like all of the um marketing, people are like can we talk to you? Can we set up a meeting? Can we talk to you? We want to talk to you because now that you're behind the wall, we could talk to you about the things that we want to ask. You know just everybody, but we can't really ask everybody, so right.

MJ: 3:01

So you were an athlete like us. I was a supernatural athlete.

Kat: 3:06

Yes, yep, I found it in. I'm going to say I know we launched in April. I believe I started playing in June and I was fascinated by it. I had been a Beat Saber player beforehand and I actually had a oculus rift, which is the um one that is plugged in um. So I, when the quest came out, I didn't jump to it immediately because, you know, like the, the tech specs for the, the rift were higher and I'm like, well, of course I want to do that. Uh, the setup for the rift was incredibly difficult because you had to have um like beacons in the room that would be watching what you were doing. Like it's not it, the, the all the um, like where you are in space, was taken care of by outside cameras rather than cameras on the um on your headset.

Kat: 4:03

So, yeah, that was a um experience. I'm, I'm like I don't, I don't need a quest, I don't need a quest. And then my friend was like you know, this, this is great, this is, you know, like, and I used to go to all any of the dance games that would come out, like, you know, dance Central. I was a big fan of Dance Central. And then, you know, beat Saber I sort of saw as the next step to it and but Supernatural is like the step beyond that. So I did finally take the plunge. I got the app and, you know, signed up and was playing and was part of the community and all of that. And I saw that Benny posted a um, a link saying, or posted something saying they were looking for more choreographers.

Kat: 4:45

And I was like I was working a job at that time that I was not thrilled with. You know, like, I've had jobs that I've loved, loved, loved. This was not one of those jobs. So I applied, but I applied with this cover letter that said nothing. You read in my resume is going to tell you that I'm qualified for this job, but here's all the reasons that I am qualified for this job. And um, and then I also said I can tell you what makes a supernatural map different than a beat saber map and, like, I can tell you the specifics that are different between those two games. And I think that that, more than anything, made them interview me. And then, once they interviewed me and they were like you're our unicorn, we want you to try and make some maps for us. So yeah, that's what happened.

MJ: 5:36

That is such a cool story. The cover letter edition. That is really what got them to look at you for sure.

Kat: 5:44

Oh yeah, because if they looked at me, my resume, it's like you're a graphic designer, that's nice. We're not looking for a graphic designer.

MJ: 5:52

And you? From my understanding, you're a big gamer. I am yeah, so you had that background there too.

Kat: 6:01

I did. I had a gaming background as well as a dance background too. I did. I have a gaming background as well as a dance background and, yeah, I my the bulk of my career like I started. I started playing game like okay, my big secret and it's not really a secret to anyone who knows me is that I am the oldest of the choreographers. So I am, you know, like I grew up with games, as games were growing up you know like video games um so like.

Kat: 6:30

My first gaming system was a commodore 64, which I bet there are people who don't even know what that is right yeah um.

Kat: 6:39

So I played that and you know like I wasn't like a huge gamer for most of growing up because I did. I went to an art school and had to commute into the city to go to the art school, so and then I was in a dance company after that while I was in high school. So I had a lot of my time and I did not get a chance to because handheld gaming wasn't a thing really. Yeah, during when I was growing up. So it was all like um, you know, like I was out of the house and doing that. But my husband was a big gamer. We met in college and then one of our first jobs that we actually had together was working at a video game magazine. I was in the art department, he was an editorial um. I started playing a lot of games there and I still I am I'm a hardcore rp um m o m o m m o r p g gamer um, and we have um. You know, my husband and I play. Right now we're playing kotar. We tend to cycle through the games. So star wars knights of the old republic we're big. Star warsOR we tend to cycle through the games. So Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic. We're big Star Wars fans but I've been playing that game for a very long time and I play, you know, we just we've been going through all of the classes of characters.

Kat: 7:56

But I've done a lot of World of Warcraft. I've done what was. The other one, city of Heroes, was fun. I don't know if you're familiar with that, but that's like superheroes but like a lot of the games we also. Diablo was a big one, actually Diablo, the newest Diablo we got Benny Justin. Does Benny Justin, dennis and I were playing that together quite a bit. That was fun, yes, but you know there's other games that I like to play, but those are like the main ones that I currently, you know, play when I get to play. I have done some of like Overwatch and Call of Duty. My husband worked for Activision for a while so we played a lot of Call of Duty during that time. But you know it's still it's sad to say, but it's still a kind of toxic community for Call of Duty when you're a female playing Call of Duty and the game where you do voice chat is still can be.

MJ: 8:57

I can imagine Really, yeah, so I can imagine.

MJ: 9:02

My partner. He plays a lot of video games and voice chats and he actually plays under my name. So a lot of people think that he's a girl. And then they hear him talk and they're like why are you fishing? Like why are you pretending to be girl? It's a long story, but anyway. So I hear the way they chat and obviously he has a close group of gaming friends, but when he interacts with new people it's I don't know that I would feel comfortable, you know, playing in that way. So it's 2024, you know, come on now, people, let's get with the times. Let's get with the times.

Kat: 9:44

Let's get with the times. Absolutely Everyone can play games and everyone should play games and play what they like. But yeah, I try to avoid those communities now.

MJ: 9:55

I don't blame you, especially when you have so much experience with the supernatural community, and it's a totally different accepting positive place to be.

Kat: 10:05

Welcoming it's not just accepting, it's like actively welcoming. Like you know like people don't like just say, oh hi, they're like. Hi, exactly, give you a hug, you're like, we're so happy you're here, so yeah.

MJ: 10:20

So was it always that way from back, when you were an athlete before you were an?

Kat: 10:25

employee.

MJ: 10:27

It was just that way from the jump.

Kat: 10:28

The community was one of the sweetest communities that I have ever experienced and also, this company is just an incredibly sweet welcoming company. Company is just an incredibly sweet welcoming company I'll never forget, like as, I think, the first we have. I don't think this is a company secret. We have like meetings where we all get together, called like the more you should know. It's just, you know, like the old, the old, yeah, the old. Saturday morning, yeah, exactly. And in my very first meeting where I was like meeting the whole company for the full time because, of course, I joined in 2020, which was COVID, so everybody was at home. That was the time that they had they announced to the company that Chesney was coming in as a guest host and they showed, you know, like, because not everybody in the whole company is in the Facebook group, so they had to like they showed a reel of her journey and then they showed Leanne's phone call to like to Chesney and it was like the entire company was sobbing, like everybody was crying and in the chat, we're all going.

MJ: 11:53

Oh my.

Kat: 11:53

God, this is so great and we're like all talking to each other and it was just such a powerful thing. So, as much as the, the community like, shows their love for each other and for the coaches and for the, you know the company itself, the company loves you guys back just as much, and it's like a lot of people are like oh, you know, the companies can't love you. I think this company could, in fact, love you.

MJ: 12:20

well, it starts there you know it has to start, so I I would assume that you guys are all just as obsessed with Supernatural as we are.

Kat: 12:32

We're all obsessed with making people's lives better. Love that that.

Kat: 12:36

that is like a core company tenant and it has, like it always, is like how do you improve their life? And the fact that we do get people posting stuff about like this has improved my life. This has changed my life for the better and it obviously has changed my life for the better. But you know, that kind of thing everybody in the company loves and it makes the work that we do you know, which is it is hard work but joyful work, but it, you know it can be hard work and then sometimes when your head is down, like some of the engineering people, when their head is down and they just can't see out the other side, I think seeing that joy that it's bringing to somebody else is is really a benefit for us as well.

MJ: 13:17

Yeah, impactful and meaningful. It's meaningful work that you guys all get to do and, man, just, even when I'm down or just feeling bad about myself, I'll go into the community and read other people's posts and stories and connect and I just leave there feeling so much better about life and possibilities, the future. That's what it does for me. I think Supernatural has changed my life completely and I remember when I first found it, like you and a lot of other people's, I played Beat Saver first and then Supernatural popped up and I was like, well, let's just try this. And, man, it literally has changed everything my health for the better, my relationships with my friends, with my family.

MJ: 14:14

I absolutely love Supernatural and the idea that you know Benny talked about how it was like finding unicorns to come and map. Like finding unicorns to come and map. I can. I only in my head. I see all of these creative people like you and you were a dancer and a graphic designer and I know you do photography. It's just so creative. And then you make us move in these, wow, just so joyful ways, ways you wouldn't even think you could move in a video game, in a virtual reality video game. I know it's a workout app, but at the core, what is it? And that's what makes Supernatural so different. It intrigues me. Are you able to use your background from dance when you map?

Kat: 15:06

oh, absolutely, absolutely. Um. So, yeah, I I have been my day of my dance background. I realized I didn't talk about that, um, I just just briefly touched on it. Um, I started dancing when I was like four or five. I was enrolled in classes and I have studied I've studied a lot, a lot, a lot of different styles, because I went to a school for performing arts and part of, like you know, because it was a school you had to do tests on things, so I had to take how to teach dance, as well as dance history and different styles of dance and like, do term papers on, you know, like developments of different cultures, dance, like there's a lot, a lot of different things there that I just sort of like threw myself into when I was young and I've always loved dance.

Kat: 16:04

And my mother has synesthesia, which is this condition where if you say a number, she sees a color, like she sees numbers as colors. She's always had that. I think I have a and it is hereditary. So she's like, do you have that? And I said the only thing that comes close is when I hear music, I see dance moves, like I have and I've done it like from the youngest age and I've done choreography for years and like back in high school when I was doing that. I was doing choreography in high school but then in college I started doing choreography for local musicals. So I've done a whole bunch of musicals. West Side is my favorite. That has a dear place in my heart. I managed I did that in the high school with the full ballet, which is one of the things that usually gets cut.

Kat: 17:04

Oh wow, really happy about that. I actually with the full ballet, which is one of the things that usually gets cut oh, wow, really happy about that. I actually, with the students I said, if you guys want to do West Side next year, I will come and I will teach dance for six months before we audition so you will be able to have a dance background, even if you are not a dancer, and be able to audition for this and really do it the way we want to do it. And uh, so, yeah, that was that was great. Um, and then um, but then I sort of got away from it because, like, after graduating from high school, it's like I don't want to starve in New York city and do Broadway, which was pretty much the only like route that I saw at that point for me.

Kat: 17:45

Broadway, which was pretty much the only like route that I saw at that point for me, um, so I went into television production and, uh, took my college courses in that and went from like dancing all the time, like, literally I was be dancing um, five to seven hours a day. When I was in high school I would dance five to seven hours a day every day, except on day when I was in high school I would dance five to seven hours a day every day except Sunday, and then I went from that from taking one dance class twice a week for an hour. So that like killed me and it was very hard and I finally was like you know what I've got to get back into dance. So I ended up teaching at different community centers for a while. So teaching dance is something that I'm very passionate about and a lot of the things I taught was like beginner jazz or beginner ballet Like that's a big thing.

Kat: 18:35

So we actually have a program in Supernatural that launched way after you started, so you probably never would have even seen it. Supernatural that launched way after you started, so you probably never would have even seen it. But is um to take you from a beginner all the way like up to in two months, being able to do a medium. So it's like that go all that way. And, um, I worked with uh closely with leanne and uh the curators and uh a couple other people behind the scenes to create that. And I came in as a dance teacher like how I would teach this if I was teaching somebody how to do these moves as a dance teacher, and how there's a form called layering, where it's like okay, you do this and you're going to do that single thing. Okay, now you're going to do it twice as fast. You know, and you're going to do that single thing.

Kat: 19:24

Okay, now you're going to do it twice as fast you know, or you're going to double it up, double up the counts, so now you're going to add, you know, this step to that step. You know, like it, just you layer and layer and layer and layer until you have a eight count combination. So we actually don't usually do that in supernatural, that's not something you see, but that's something we use to get body confidence Because that's one of the you know the things that when we hear people unsure, like being unsure of how to do a move because you don't, you're in, you know you're in the web.

Kat: 19:55

I don't know how to do that, you know how do?

Kat: 19:57

I do that Like trying to explain it and being confident that you're doing it right. That was what we were trying to build on that you have a confidence in how you're moving, because when you're moving confidently, you're moving more fully and you're less likely to get injured. When you're moving more fully which is like a lot of people think, oh, I'm going to hurt myself You're more likely to hurt yourself. If you tense up. If you're just really letting it go and doing it, you're probably not going to hurt yourself.

MJ: 20:23

Right, I find that to be true. I have a pretty open play space. I'd like more room, but talking my family into giving me an entire room in the house just for Supernatural is not going to happen.

MJ: 20:36

But I have a pretty big space and I take up a lot of space. I like to move around as much as possible. I like to move around as much as possible and I find not only do I get a better workout from it, but my muscle, I mean I feel almost obviously free, but looser, because I feel like when I play in a tight space, like if I'm in a hotel or something, I tense up too much and my body doesn't feel as loose and it can actually impinge your shoulders.

Kat: 21:04

Yes, if you're holding the shoulders tight and you're not, I'm specifically in flow. But if you're holding on to these muscles, I realized the weirdest thing. You know, like there was something like that clicked to me one day. It's like I don't need to hold my shoulders, to keep my arms on. You know, if I just relax, they're going to stay there, and it's like that's a click that you like. Oh, I don't need to hold on. I was like I just can just let that go. And when I let those go and I let them move, everything's better.

MJ: 21:37

You know that could help a lot of people. Honestly, because I know the coaches you'll hear Leanne all the time. Put those shoulders down, let them go from your ears. You know, drop them from your ears. And that is so important, because I don't. You know one. You're in the headset and when you're in the headset things you think you're doing one thing and you're doing another, and so I always suggest people record themselves. They don't have to show it, but record themselves to see what they're doing. But letting go and loosening up, saying you don't have to hold onto your shoulders Wow, the way my brain works that made a lot of sense for me and just loosen up, let go move.

MJ: 22:16

You know, yeah, oh, wow, actually I do know about that program you're talking about. I believe you can find it in collections. I remember when it came out it was a huge for the community, especially cause you, like you said, body confidence and teaching people how to safely and confidently go from low to mediums. Um, I've, I've actually played it, believe it or not, just to see. I've gone back just to see. Okay, well, have I missed anything? And sometimes I've used it to work on my squats, to go like to calibrate again and go a little bit lower or play with something else in there. It's sort of like one of my um go-to play around in maps, I guess um to experiment with with movement. So I think it's invaluable. I love those types of programs, and especially as a dance teacher. Now that I know that I want to go back in and play it, thinking about you teaching us dance with the movements. It makes sense.

Kat: 23:18

One of the things that I, as a dance teacher, one of the hardest things to do and this is going to sound like why is this hard, but it is incredibly hard is teaching people to shift weight, which we try to do all the time in Supernatural. We do a lot our lean triangles Cause everybody does them, like the what we consider the movement for the lean triangles, cause a lot of people consider it differently. Some people think it's more of a hip movement out like and some people will be more like, like I. For me, a lean triangle is I'm going to put, if it's a bringing to the right, I'm going to put all my weight on the right and I'm going to leave just my toe lifted with my heel lifted on the left. Yeah, leaning over. Not everybody does it that way, but that's how you know, that's how I do it and how I think about it.

Kat: 24:11

But when, when people are learning to dance, they get super nervous about letting their weight be on one foot or the other and they always try to stay centered.

Kat: 24:21

And the problem with that is that if you don't lean to this, I say lean to this side you can't pick up your left foot easily to step on it if you don't get the weight on the right foot, so that, like teaching somebody how to just do that weight shift, pick up your foot, put it down or just you know, like take the weight off without actually picking it up.

Kat: 24:42

That's incredibly hard for some people to get their brains around and to actually get it into it, cause I think there, with any movement, there's two parts of it there's understanding what you're supposed to do and then there's letting it sink into your body, because it's, and then, after it's sunk into your body, then you can do it instinctively without thinking, cause there's like think about it, think about it, connect it and then just do it. So once you get to the just do it, you are like golden, and that's when it feels great and like a lot of times I'll be doing something in a thing and I'm like have I repeated it that much? Have I repeated it too many times? Or is this at the point where they're like no, I got it and have I repeated it too many times? Or is this at the point where they're like, no, I got it and I'm doing?

Kat: 25:27

it and I'm feeling it and.

MJ: 25:28

I'm blaring it you know, like I'm putting my own, you know, spin on it.

Kat: 25:31

Yeah, yeah, and do that Like honestly, any of the moves, put your own spin on it.

MJ: 25:35

It's meant to dance to personal expression Most definitely, and I feel that I I'm always at the foundation. I want to be able to do the moves, the triangles, the hits, the targets, the way you guys intend them to be, and I always play that way, my first play. But sometimes I just get so into it the music, the movements, I add my own things in and I'm like, well, hold on, let me focus back on the triangles and then my second play, I'll just do what you guys want me to, plus whatever I want to do. Um, I was never a dancer. I enjoyed dancing, but I didn't go to dance classes or anything like that.

MJ: 26:17

I remember one ballet lesson when I was I don't even know how old I was, we were in Scotland, so I must have been like six or seven when I was, when we lived there, and I remember going to like a couple of the classes it wasn't just one, but that was it. I was not that kid, I didn't do anything active my whole life. Supernatural is it wasn't until I found Supernatural that I've stuck with something. But now I've gone, uh, you know, to a, to a hip hop dance class. Like I, I put myself, I want to go, you know, to take salsa lessons. I want to do these things now, whereas before I was just, I didn't have the confidence, I didn't, I didn't feel good about it within myself to want to go out there and do it. But now I'm like, let's go, let's go, I want to go right now.

Kat: 27:10

Um, so fabulous. I'm so happy to hear that.

MJ: 27:14

Yes, it makes me very, very happy. I love dance, I love watching dance, I love moving my body, however I feel, to the music, and the fact that you guys do that is just incredible to me, and I think so many, so many people. I mean, if you just look at the community, that's all they talk about and there's like what? Over a hundred thousand people there now, in the community itself.

Kat: 27:41

I don't even I like I, I haven't looked at the numbers, so I, it's just there's so many people, people and I, you know I go in there, but sometimes it's a little even overwhelming for us. So it's like, you know, like we'll go in and we'll look, but you know, I think most of us like Dave and Justin, I think, are more are the biggest hardcore like in there all the time. I I'm I'm now more of a lurker than I am, you know, like in full time, but I try to, I try to go in and and what's funny is if somebody sees somebody commenting on a map that they know somebody else did, they'll be like, hey, cat, you gotta go to, gotta go in the facebook group because they're talking about oh, I love, I love that.

MJ: 28:24

So you guys tell each other hey, they're talking about that one you just put out.

Kat: 28:28

Oh, that's cool, oh of course that's cool, you know.

MJ: 28:32

I asked Benny if he knows one of his workouts is coming out that he's really excited about. I know you guys map so many workouts months before.

Kat: 28:41

Honestly, I don't even. I have no idea. It was really funny, as there was a map that just came out that, um, it was not my, it was not my map, uh, or not not map a workout. It was not my workout, but it was a workout that was mapped literally a year ago and it like, we have some, you know, like we. We have plans and we do it, but then we also uh, curation if they to get ahead, we'll put together some what we call bankable, you know, workouts. It's like we'll just have it, it'll be in our back pocket when we need something. It's there, um, so yeah, it was done super long time ago. It was like came out and it was like, oh, okay, that's, that's a cool one had no idea that was coming out.

MJ: 29:29

Yeah, forgot that. I even did that.

Kat: 29:32

That's crazy a lot of times it can't like. Most of the time it was it used to be. When we were doing the dailies, it was a little. You had a a better concept of when they were coming out. Now the packaging, it's a little less like knowing when things are coming out but nothing's going to be out for. I think I heard Benny's podcast and I think he said five weeks. I think he is underestimating. I think it's two months.

Kat: 30:01

I think it's eight weeks I mean I could be wrong and also things swap. There are things that come in hot and we have to do and get out pretty quick.

MJ: 30:10

That makes sense, like all the special stuff or new things you guys are working on behind the scenes. That makes sense. And I mean, who doesn't want some insurance, some bankable things? That makes I didn't even think about it. But as a company, I mean even as a podcast, I have an episode or two banked just in case something happens. I have something I can put out. So it makes sense. You guys would have workouts like that, but a whole year, wow.

Kat: 30:40

Yeah, yeah.

MJ: 30:42

That's kind of crazy, but makes sense, Makes sense. Okay, this is a totally off subject question, but I have to ask for my friend Heather. She specifically I told her you were a Star Wars fan and she wanted to know what color is your lightsaber.

Kat: 31:05

Okay, see, the problem is, I don't just have one, my, my, okay, my first. Tell us all.

Kat: 31:15

My first lightsaber my very first lightsaber was a one that I I got built. I didn't get. I got it at a, at a con, like it's. It's like somebody who builds lightsabers. Um, this is, and it's a teal blade, it's a, so it's a mix of um, it's a mix of green and blue leds together, which is great when it works, but occasionally it will short out and just the blue or just the green will be there. So that's a little weird. Since having that happen, my husband and I are big fans of Galaxy's Edge and we have been to Galaxy's Edge several times and each time we've gone. Well, not each time we've gone. Between the two of us, we have all four of the builds in both variations. No, because they did a refresh of the builds in both variations no so there, cause they did a refresh of the line.

Kat: 32:09

So my very first, like Savi's build lightsaber, uh, it's a purple um, purple crystal, um, and it was a uh for those, for, uh, those of you who care and know, uh, it was the old Republic style one. It's the silver and copper and gold all together. I'll send you some pictures, yes, please, and we'll put it on here. We have a total, I think, between my husband and I, I think we have 15 lightsabers now. Oh, wow. So yeah, that was a more difficult question than you thought it would be.

MJ: 32:48

No, actually this is great. 15? That's incredible. Like, do you have certain circumstances, you'll bring out one over the other.

Kat: 32:58

We have the most on display, like I actually built a display for them. So, yeah, we have the eight from Star Wars. I have two Princess Leia they are on official blades One official and one not official that my husband got me. We have the lightsaber from the Star Cruiser, from the star cruiser, and then we have a very special lightsaber that was a press gift for star Wars, the old Republic, that we did not get. It was actually given to a friend of ours who passed away and his wife gave us the lightsaber to remember him, cause she's like there's nobody besides my husband who will care for this as much as you guys will. So, yeah, that's on, it's gorgeous and it's like in pride of place in our in our display. But, yeah, big Star Wars display like literally two bookshelves worth of Star Wars stuff.

MJ: 34:02

That's incredible. That's incredible. I love that when I have to admit I went looking for some pictures of you and you and your husband have the best time dressing up and going to the cons and going down to Florida and going to the Star Wars area down there, and it just looks like we go to both parks down to Florida and going to the Star Wars area down there.

Kat: 34:26

And it just looks like an incredible amount. We go to both parks. Disneyland is technically our home park, but last year we went to Florida twice to do the Star Cruiser.

MJ: 34:35

That's cool, that's really cool. So if you could name the next droid, what would you name it?

Kat: 34:44

I'm building a droid. You're building a droid. I'm building a droid. I'm building a droid. You're building a droid.

MJ: 34:47

I'm building a droid.

Kat: 34:48

I'm building a droid. My husband and I, after going on the Star Cruiser, which, if people aren't familiar, was the Star Wars Hotel slash LARP experience he has been in a band um with a friend of his for a while and they decided that they wanted to make a in-universe star wars band, like, like, if you, if you were in the galaxy in star wars, what would you be listening to on the on the intergalactic radio? Um, and they, uh, they decided, because it's just the two of them, that they would make a droid for their drummer. So, by they, it's we, because I am playing the drummer in the music and we have a gig in October and I am physically building our droid and her name is B340.

MJ: 35:45

B340. B340. So cool, so you're the drummer for the band. Yes, and the draw are you going to? You're going to be in the droid.

Kat: 35:57

No, okay, the droid is the drummer for the band in the fact that it is electronics drums and it is already prerecorded. But I am the voice for that because the droid not only does speak, but she also sings in some of the songs. So I am the voice for the B drum for the droid.

MJ: 36:13

So that's how I am the droid. This is perfection and so futuristic and fitting for the Star Wars world and just the way all of this comes together. I absolutely love it. I would love to see you guys live. I think that would be so fun and fitting, especially when you're surrounded by other fans and it feels like you're in that universe. You're there.

Kat: 36:39

So we're hoping to do more cons afterwards. The band is called the Kyber punks. We are on Spotify.

MJ: 36:46

Yes, everyone go check them out.

Kat: 36:50

I love that. But yeah, it's, it's fun, we, we, really we, we. It's nice to do it. It has been a little intense building the droid because the reason my husband and his friends are doing have done everything sort of like on the internet so far is because, um, although jude, our third member, my husband is dan. Dan and jude started in a local 80s band, um in the bay area. Jude moved to boston so they, uh, jude is building the electronics for the Droid in Boston while and doing some of the 3D printing. My husband and I did the rest of the 3D printing and we did the sanding and the painting and I did the. I just did the weathering pass where you know, I I make it look instead of like shiny silver, I make it look like it's been lived in, it's lived in, lived in universe, best part of the universe Lived in universe.

Kat: 37:50

It is it absolutely is.

MJ: 37:52

I think that it just goes to show all the different layers of creativity and outlets that you have. I just think that is so very neat. So Star Wars when Star Wars, I remember was it 2021? Or I think it was 2021 when the first Star Wars workout the first Star Wars, I believe it was.

Kat: 38:14

Yeah.

MJ: 38:15

I have a confession to make.

Kat: 38:18

No, I think it may have been 2022.

MJ: 38:21

It might have been. I should have saved it Because.

Kat: 38:23

I think it was 2022 and then we had we're able to bring yes, and it was just one day, and then we were able to bring it back for a week last year on 2023 and then this year we didn't know if we were going to. We were able to bring it back again, but then we also had the two new workouts yes, the two new ones.

MJ: 38:41

That's right. So the first year it came out I played it seven times in that day and you had to because it was going away.

Kat: 38:50

Yes, I had to. I had to.

MJ: 38:53

So when you found out that there was going to be a Star Wars Day workout, were you just like ecstatic and I mean you're like fighting everyone. It's like I want to map something in here.

Kat: 39:06

Do you know, the funny thing is, um, I have been involved in curating like especially this last one. In fact, like I worked, I worked with Kevin, one of our curators, but I, um, I helped put it together and I helped do all the research and I've helped with both times. I've helped a much lighter touch on the, on the the first one, but they now know that I am these because they didn't know how big of a Star Wars geek I was during the first one. Now that they know I'm a big Star Wars geek, I, you know, helped with giving the coaches the storyline, like this is what's happening during it and like here's video clips of what's happening during this song and why, and. But I only mapped one map and that map got cut.

Kat: 39:59

No it was. It was. I was a little bummed about it and I'm not going to say what it is Cause I hope it comes back. And I was a little bummed about it. Yeah, and I'm not going to say what it is, because I hope it comes back and I was pushing, for I actually. Oh, no, I'll just.

MJ: 40:11

I'm not going to say that. So your your first. Now the second year, or was it the third year? Wow, I can't believe. When we got the two new ones. Yeah, when we got the two new editions. Technically, the third year that we did Star Wars Day. Were any of your maps in there. I'm putting this out into the universe right now for you Like it's okay.

Kat: 40:36

No, it's like I um there like there are people who are very strong with the orchestral stuff and I'm I can do ballet because I know the ballet pretty well, and, um, I tend to lean back on the actual movement. But there's a repetition to ballet and actually, if you ever watched classical choreography for a ballet, the move I'm going to do, and then the composer wrote to the move um instead of the other the other way around, yeah um.

Kat: 41:22

So I like, the very first sweat symphony that I ever worked on was um vivaldi's winter, and I struggled with it. Of course it was pretty early on when I was doing it, so it was probably trying to do too much too fast, but yeah, so, like, benny has a real strength with sweat symphonies and, as does Lowry and Ethan are all solid and they're the guys that have done the majority of the Star Wars stuff, I'm thinking. But I love their stuff and I did play through all of them before they went. And one of the things that Benny just did with such perfection this time through is Grievous' march, I think it's. I can't remember the name of it, but it's the one that is grievous. He got that insectoid feel to like I'm moving like a robot insect and I'm like that. I don't think I could have done that. So bravo to you, benny. That was really special.

MJ: 42:28

That's awesome, he nailed it. You're like, okay, I approve, okay, yes, yes, yes, these are great. I approve Okay, yes, yes, yes, these are great, that's awesome. So what is your favorite? What music do you feel like best shows off your skills as a choreographer?

Kat: 42:46

Um, I love, love, love. I'm a child of the eighties, seventies and eighties. I love eighties music, a lot of what I do, a lot of retrofit. I will do shower songs. I do a lot of shower songs. I do a lot of guilty pleasures. I do seventies.

Kat: 43:11

It's funny because we all had like a secret it wasn't secret, it was secret to you guys, I suppose. But it's funny because we all had like a secret it wasn't secret, it was secret to you guys, I suppose, but it wasn't secret to uh, within our thing, we all had like wish lists for artists. Um, and, like you know, when this artist comes, I want to do that. And I one of my favorite artists of all time is Kate Bush like, love, love, love, love, love, kate Bush. And I would laugh with Dennis. I'm like, well, if Kate Bush ever comes up, I have Kate Bush. He goes, yeah, I got you down right here. And then the whole Stranger Things thing happens and all of a sudden, like everybody's like, oh, I want to do that song. It's like, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. I asked, this belongs to me. Good, so, yes, dennis was like, yeah, you got k-bush.

Kat: 43:58

So I'm also a big fan, big, big fan of just went straight out of my mind. They might be giants. I have a very weird like my musical tastes are very varied and and strange and um, I mean, you know, like, stuff that I grew up with I love, but, um, you know, I'm like, how's the pain jump around? Yes, I want that, like most other rap. Or you know, like I don't know if people would call that rap I.

Kat: 44:30

It's just heavy, but I, I'm, I don't have a real affinity to some of the um, the, the rap artists or um house, like that's not, that's not in my wheelhouse, so, um, I don't, I tend to not try to do those or, and we, what we do is we used to have, like, we used to have a ranking system where we actually rolled a d20 and we had a list of like you know, everybody had a pecking order and trevor was at the top of the list. If they called a song they would get it, but then they would go to the bottom of the list and it would just cycle down.

Kat: 45:08

The funny thing was that benny was at the bottom of the list, like he had a bad role, but he was the one that kept calling things and nobody else was willing to lose their place in line. So benny just like gamed the heck out of that system. Um, and now that we're doing full workouts, we have a system where, um, we can see, uh, the, the songs, the workouts that are coming up and, um, if you want to do a song, you put your name on it and that's like, and if you really are not a song, the workout. And if you really want to do a workout, you put your name on it with a heart, um, and that way the people who are most have the most affinity with that workout are going to, um, are going to do that music. And it is so evident when, um, the, you know the workout and the and the choreographer just gel and it and it fits and it's like that's just brilliant.

MJ: 46:12

Yeah, I, I would agree with that. I think, um, being able to call the workouts that really speak to you, that you just really feel um is really cool, um, I, I, I envisioned that in my head this whole time is that's the way it worked. Obviously, I figured, sometimes you know, you don't. What if three people want that workout? What if you know what if no one wants that workout?

Kat: 46:39

You have to do it. What happens is usually we encourage people to put more than one name on a workout because sometimes you know like, so it's not just the first person who puts their name on it, it's like everybody gets a chance to look at it and everybody puts their name on it, and then it's sort of like what works out best. And usually what will happen is, if there's stuff with no names on it, dennis will be like, please, can somebody look at this and put your name on it. And then it sort of goes down to like, the second time you look, it's like well, I wouldn't mind doing that. That's not like I don't want to do it, but I wouldn't mind doing that because there's some, there's some styles of music that don't necessarily have like most of the styles of music.

Kat: 47:25

There is at least one or two choreographers that are like you know, really want to do that style and they can split it and they, you know, like bounce back and forth. There's a couple styles that not everybody is like huge fans of, and we all take our turns with those and try to bring as much like like if I have to do a workout just because I'm the only one available or it's the right fit or nobody else, you know, you know whatever it is, and if it's just not, you know, you know whatever it is, and if it's just not, you know, like my thing, I will try to find what I can, and if I really really can't find something, I will. I will tap out I can't, I can't do it. Can somebody else do it? Or can somebody else like, can somebody else do it with me?

Kat: 48:13

And sometimes, like you know sharing that, or like you know like we'll share the full workout, so not one person is stuck with because it's one thing. It's one thing like usually the workouts are four or five songs. If you have four or five songs, you know that that you're not super in love with it's okay if it's a monster and you're not in love with it, yeah.

Kat: 48:32

Yeah, that's like we share that you know, and we try to and we always try to make it as much fun. Like, even if we're not personally in love with it, we try to make it as much fun as possible because somebody loves that. So to somebody that's their favorite song and we want that workout to be great. And the funny thing is that workout to be great. And the funny thing is I've had work, I've had songs that I have. I have a deep and abiding love for them. And then get into that song and realize this is a nightmare to choreograph.

Kat: 49:09

What the hell was I thinking? This is horrible. I mean, it's not horrible. It's horrible to to choreograph in the fact that it doesn't have a straightforward tempo, or like there was a song I don't even remember what song it was but it had like 15 different tempo changes. It was just like all of it was like this now we slow down and it, and now we slow down, and it's like I never had I sing along to the song all the time. I know the song really well. Can I choreograph it? Yeah, I will, but sometimes and that's why, with Star Wars, sometimes it's just better if I'm going to have trouble with it, and those had all kinds of tempo changes Sometimes it's better for me to let another choreographer, who I know is going to do a fabulous job, do it, so that I can just enjoy it as a user and not have to suffer through the birth of the baby.

MJ: 50:04

I love that analogy. Yeah, I could see that. I could definitely see that. Do you have like a dream artist that you wish you guys could get? That you not only love the music, but you would want to choreo like a wish list besides kate bush.

Kat: 50:25

Um, yeah, I I like, I I wish we had more than just um, just that, um, I want more shenate o'connor. I really, really, really want more shenate o'connor.

Kat: 50:36

We have, um, one, one song I want to say it's mandika. Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's mandika um, but we only have one song in. I love shenate o'connor and I uh like, uh, emperor'sothes, I would. I think that's great. I mean there's there's some songs that would that I would love to perform, but I don't know if I would love to choreograph like Troy and Jerusalem would be incredibly difficult. I'm also a huge Indigo Girls fan and I would love to get Indigo Girls and but I don't believe we have any any clearance on those.

MJ: 51:13

No, I don't think so. Not not in the library, as we don't believe we have any clearance on those. No, I don't think so, not in the library, as currently.

Kat: 51:17

Oh no, we don't have any in I bet. I don't know if we have the ability to do that. Got it Right now, wow, man.

MJ: 51:26

When you were a graphic designer, you said you worked at a magazine.

Kat: 51:33

Lots of magazines. I worked at a lot of magazines, yeah, designer.

MJ: 51:35

You said you worked at a magazine. Lots of magazines, a lot of magazines. Yeah, man, I was looking at an old school Vogue magazine the other day. For the first time in a few years I found a box of old magazines in my house and I was just admiring the print. I mean, it was such an experience to get a magazine open it, look at everything, read the articles, the pictures. Such a tactile experience. You worked at a gaming magazine once with your husband, right?

Kat: 52:05

I have worked at probably at least seven different gaming magazines. The first one I worked was PC games and then I switched over and I worked with um, a game pro, with my husband and um when I was at game pro. Game pro was unabashedly for a younger audience. Um, I think our audience was like 7 to 15, was the the range um and uh in order to. This is a in order to hide the fact that they didn't have a lot of writers at the beginning and they wanted to seem like I think they literally started with one writer and they wanted to seem like they had a lot of people with a lot of different opinions and a lot of expertise. They started by making the writers cartoon characters. So, you know, one person could be five different cartoon characters and nobody would ever know. So, you know, one person could be five different cartoon characters and nobody would ever know. So, yeah, when I was at GamePro, my husband was on the edit team and I also did some reviews, and I did some reviews for some dance games.

MJ: 53:07

There were some dance games. That's where I was going to ask about.

Kat: 53:10

Yeah, I always get this wrong. I think it originally in Japan was Bust a Move and when it came out here it had to be Bust a Groove, because Bust a Move was a different style of puzzle game. But there was this game that I absolutely adored where you picked a character and you would do dance battles with that character and it was the rhythm matching game, sort of like Parappa the Rapper, if people are familiar with that. But the thing that was magic about that game is each dancer had their own style and then, but all those styles worked with all the music, because you fought with different people using different and you would play to their music when you were fighting them but, like the guy who did capoeira style, would dance to the house music and it still worked.

MJ: 53:59

And I'm like how blew my mind. But I adored.

Kat: 54:04

I adored that game. That was such one of my favorite games I probably my favorite dance game until Dance Central came out.

MJ: 54:12

When Dance Central became, a big favorite for me. I think it's really neat that you could use your dance background, that skill, in the gaming world, in a magazine world. And then you come to Supernatural. Even though when you applied at Supernatural you were like my resume is not going to look like I'm, I'm the one you want to hire. But let me tell you why. It's like everything led you to to this job, all the experience that you've had, all the different um jobs and roles. It was just like a perfect mix for you to come in here and and choreograph this weird new way of moving. You know, because it was so, it was so new, it is so new in comparison. There's, I mean, beat saber, but supernatural is not beat saber, you know, it's a. It's a totally different way of moving it's not, yeah, it's.

Kat: 55:11

It's interesting because, um, yeah, like, dance is probably the most similar in the style, because, if you're not familiar with Dance Central, it was a Xbox Kinect game where they actually used a camera so they could see what you were doing and see if you were doing like, they showed you the move on screen, sort of like you're mirroring a coach or something, and you had to be in the positions your hands, your feet, like it was, everything had to be in those positions, and so it was nice that it got a full body thing, but I find that it was a little bit more static because you had to sort of almost hit things.

Kat: 55:56

It wasn't like there was the, there wasn't a lot of fluid, fluidity to it, and I think that that's one of the advantages that we have, because, particularly in flow, there is like it's all about the fluidity and it's about the, you know, really letting that seep into you and and and and, do it and like, feel that movement. It is, um, you know, like, I look forward to a future where technology gets to the point where we can, you know, do more with lower body other than just, you know, squat down yeah squat down, squat to the side.

Kat: 56:33

You know there are other planes of motion that we can't really, you know, explore yet.

Kat: 56:39

Yeah, and we, you know we play with things and try to see what we can make people do, but a lot of it is like there have been times where we're like, what if we do this move? And it's like, well, that'll only work if the coach is telling you what to do when you see that it's like, well, that'll only work if the coach is telling you what to do when you see that. Because a lot of what we really really try to do is I want to make you do this move. I need to make you do this move, assuming you know there are people who, there are people who turn off the music like we know this because they tell us this.

Kat: 57:12

They turn off the music and listen to their own music while doing it, and I'm like we so carefully curate it so it matches the music as much as possible that that just seems like how is that an enjoyable experience? But if that is the experience you want, we're trying to make it work for you, like even if you don't have the coaches telling you that, you can see a movement coming at you and know what to do when you do that and yeah, we try our best to make it work without coaches telling you what to do but that it's just instinctual, but sometimes, with certain moves, unless you have a coach telling you what you're doing, you're not going to get it Agreed.

MJ: 57:52

And there's so many different levels of dance. Some people have zero dance. You know they're just coming in basically wanting to flow or do the movements the best that they can. There's so many different levels. I think to do new movements you have to listen to the, with the coach telling you you know, in some of them at least, um, it's really awesome when you guys can do it intuitively. Um, especially, there's some, there's some lasso movements that go in country workouts. That you just know. You know you feel it instantly. You see that target coming and you know you're doing that move in a line dance, you.

Kat: 58:36

But there was a line dance workout, um that jr jr and I worked on together, um, where we were trying. They were we were actually trying to get the line dances in. I don't we? We had very high ambition when we went into it, like we were actually like and cause some of them are like now step back, like you know, like is it boot scooting?

Kat: 59:03

There was one where it was like okay, you walk three steps back, walk forward, and then it was like a heel scoot where you turn in and the actual dance you turn 45 degrees, not 45, 90 degrees I can count but we don't and we tried doing it with a 90 degrees and then you know, be on the other axis when you're doing it. But it didn't work as well. And it's funny because I also worked, like Benny and a couple of us and I think Asia also, for the very first April Fool's one. Yeah, was all social dances and I, what did I do? I did electric, the electric slide, yeah, and like, and Benny was working on macarena, so it was like like, how do you know right there's certain things we can do and certain things we can't do.

Kat: 1:00:05

We were trying like trying so hard to push, like get the feel of it like of an actual dance without doing it. And I know that justin Justin took out an insane thing I think he was doing a black pink song and he wanted to do the choreography from the stage show on the black from a black pink song and I'm like that's a lot to try to do and it's like it worked. It was fun, but I don't know if anyone doing it it's like this is exactly the moves they do maybe some hardcore black pink fans would know um maybe, but it's.

Kat: 1:00:42

You know, it's weird when you're doing it and it's like you're doing it and it's like you're doing a multi-person dance with one that is difficult.

MJ: 1:00:51

Well, this is the kind of information that I scour the internet looking for. I think, personally knowing that now about Justin and the Black Pink song, I think it would be really cool if they mentioned that when they feature the workout in the community or something and say, hey, why don't you watch this music video? Because these are the movements there and I think it would connect for a lot of people. They'd be like, oh wow, that's what we're doing, and then they'd see it in a whole new way when they go in and play it.

Kat: 1:01:23

Sometimes I know that the coaches will like if we tell the coaches it doesn't happen all the time, but sometimes it's like if we tell the coaches this is what we're trying to do with a workout, then the coaches it doesn't happen all the time, but sometimes it's like if we tell the coaches this is what we're we're trying to do with um with a workout, then the coaches will will will mention it and we'll try to do it.

Kat: 1:01:43

I had workout that that. That didn't get mentioned because I think it was probably too high concept, like this year's um flow, and I think it was a low flow um shamrock.

MJ: 1:01:59

I love that workout. That's yours. The lows, yeah, oh man, I well what it was supposed to be is I?

Kat: 1:02:10

one of the one of my hobbies is um Irish Kayh dancing, which is the social dancing. It's not the like I have done the river dance, you know like hard shoe, soft shoe, full-on dancing. But there is a subset of that called. It's not really a subset, it's the. That's the like performance dance, but it all came from the same place but from from before that.

Kat: 1:02:39

The kaylee, uh kaylee dances are set party dances, so usually in groups of uh, eight people, four couples or there's other variations, but they're like a little bit like square dancing. I suppose there's like a square dancing is there's square dancing, there's Kaylee dancing, there is Contra dancing, which is English country dancing. So these are all very similar. Like somebody is calling out the moves and you do the moves, and a lot of them they're like for this song. These are the. This is the dance and everybody learns it and like you know it and sometimes they'll teach it like they. They have these things still all around the country now where you go and like usually the first hour or so is teaching dances and then you do the dance later on. You know like you do the dance with a live band playing and everybody does it.

Kat: 1:03:34

so that particular dance, what that set, was kaylee choreography, or as close as I could get to kaylee choreography, which isn't exact because you don't have a partner and you can't, you're not doing, you know the turns, but there's a, a pump move that I was trying to imitate with the the knee strikes to get that going.

MJ: 1:03:55

So yeah, oh, now I want to go and play that work. I loved that workout. I talked about it. I remember playing it with a group of friends that day and I was like I'm blown away by this low. I am like this low is so good that it was just a quick hit, but was so great, it was so great. Oh man, now I want to play that again it was very flowy too.

Kat: 1:04:20

Um, yeah, very flowy, which you said that you you don't feel, or your words where you're not very good at the orchestra type of music, but there's a mighty musicals that I know the musicals are slightly different different because yeah, because um, orchestral, like a lot of the orchestral music, does not form patterns, but there are patterns in in the musicals and musicals I've I mean having choreographed actual musicals yeah, right but yes, so I'm sorry.

MJ: 1:04:53

No, you're fine. I'm glad you explained that to me, because I was thinking, okay, well, but this Mighty Musical that I'm thinking about is definitely. I mean, it's a musical. It's got one of the greatest showman songs in it, not greatest showman songs. What is it? Rewrite the Stars? What movie is that from?

Kat: 1:05:13

That's Greatest Showman.

MJ: 1:05:15

Yeah, what is it? Rewrite the Stars. What movie is that from? That's good to show them? Yeah, yeah, man, rewrite the Stars is so beautiful. The song is beautiful, the emotion is beautiful, but the moves, the flowiness of it and and I just think about that movie scene, and they're on the, you know, flying through the air, and I absolutely loved that one, absolutely loved that one.

Kat: 1:05:38

I spent a long time on that and I spent a long time watching that video for that. And I did because we can go like, because there's so much of that with the ropes I think they're ropes, I don't think it's or silks, but there's so much of it where it does give you that feeling of going around and it's like, well, we have 360 degrees, so I wanted to use that and really lean into, you know, going around and getting that feeling.

Kat: 1:06:06

And it's funny because when I started we had more rules than we do now, and now it's there's just like some guidelines, really, that that of things we do or don't do, um, and one of the things that we always try to avoid is, um, crossing the like, ending with crossed arms, because it's like you want it just to be like in a neutral position. You know high or low, or you know one arm, but back into arm is on the side of the body that it belongs on, got it.

Kat: 1:06:40

You don't smash controllers. And that one, I was like no, I have to end with the crossed arms. And I even ran it up. I'm like is it okay? Is it okay that I do this? And everybody played it. I was like, yeah, yeah, that works. And I was so, so happy. That was one of the ones where I think Dave is like Kat, you have to go into the, into the community, because they're talking about the, talking about you write the stars, so yeah.

MJ: 1:07:05

I was very happy with that. I loved it. I loved it and you definitely got the turning, the flying. I love turns, I love spinning, spin me all day, I'm all about it. And that one. It's the perfect intensity level to allow you to add your own moves and to really get full body movement in there, and it bumps up the intensity level because you're really pushing yourself. You know, absolutely love that workout.

Kat: 1:07:44

One of the things that I like from like I I when I was I was in a dance company, but I was. I was in what is probably now considered a contemporary dance company, but I they didn't call it contemporary when I was in what is probably now considered a contemporary dance company, but they didn't call it contemporary when I was in it. It was a modern dance company and the style of modern that I was brought up in is called Humphrey Limon and it's all about like expansion and contraction and fall and release and contraction and fall and release. So, as much as I can, I'm going to ask you to go. You know like full extension and um, and like whole, you know ways and like do big, big things with your arms. It's like I.

Kat: 1:08:28

I like this is not does not make me happy but you know, like I'm going gonna want the full thing and if I can get you to cross and then go back and unwind it, yeah, like I'm gonna try to try to push because that's the way that my body is comfortable and moving.

Kat: 1:08:46

So, therefore, that's when I'm listening to music or seeing you know the piece, you know like I was just working on um, a track and I was it's sort of a slow dance, you know promy type of thing, and when I was doing it, I'm like, okay, you know like, and I just like click and put targets in there, and then I have to go back in and like, okay, that's where I want everything to land and that's the direction I want them to land. You know what tails do I need to put them together so they get to that place, because my body is just going, okay, this way, this way, this way. You know like, that's what I'm trying to do, and then having to figure out, like this is what I want to do, how do I convert that into targets or target placement entails so oh, man.

MJ: 1:09:37

So thinking about the future, you said. You said a little bit earlier about how technology isn't really caught up to the way we we envision we want to move in vr. Could you imagine, 10 years from now, the technology once VR has caught up to the way you want to move us and how you could translate that on the screen? That's incredible to think for me personally as an outsider, to think about the way you'll have us move years from now from now.

Kat: 1:10:19

Um, have you seen the? Um, the disney tech that they have? Um, yeah, yes, yes, that, like having it for people who aren't familiar, it's it's basically like a floor of tiles. Yes, that lets, um, you move, but not move like you. You can walk, you can, you know, like run, but you stay in the center of this and you, they can control where you go. Uh, like they, they, you know it, like run, but you stay in the center of this and they can control where you go, like they, you know it's going to be what they use for rides and stuff like that. But, yeah, that is, I think, the killer.

Kat: 1:10:45

Well, something similar would be the killer app in super, in VR in general, because that would be fabulous for you, you know, like running and gunning games, but also like for supernatural, where you could, like, you know when you're performing and you, you see this sometimes, like if you watch I used to watch, so you think you can dance all the time and I'm sort of sad that it it came back the way it did. I didn't love the way it came back recently, but, um, but just watching the old stuff when you could tell when a performer was doing well and feeling it and somewhat experienced with how they took up the stage and taking up the stage means it's like if you're one person, if you're doing a solo on a stage, stages are big.

Kat: 1:11:33

It's like you have to have two kinds of taking up the stage. There's like a presence that you have to physically bring when you're performing and you know, I always see that like as through the chest, like having that like presence. Even if you're coming in, you need to go out and bring everybody in with you, but then also just moving and not being afraid of taking up space and going to all of those corners of the stage and you know this is your space, own it, that kind of thing and I being able to do that virtually in a small room where you know you can't really run and jump and leap, but you could if they let you.

MJ: 1:12:13

You have that floor that we're talking about man. No, it's crazy because, you know, I'm an 80s kid too. I was born in the 80s and we have a much different way of looking at the world because we grew up through technology, we grew up through computers and all of this stuff. So when I think about the possibility of what we could do in VR world because we grew up through technology, we grew up through computers and all of this stuff so when I think about the possibility of what we could do in VR in the future, I mean I'm still shook that we can do what we can do in VR with Supernatural. But I'm a forward future type of thinker. I'm always like what can we do next? You know, what can we? That's just the my personality, I suppose. So I get a little. We do that Like as a company.

Kat: 1:13:00

We're kind of that way too, cause we're constantly thinking it's like what can we do next with both? You know the technology that the headsets gives us, but also just what can we? How can we like push what we already have? You know more. And it's like a lot of times when we're trying to do something, like one of one of the things we did in that uh, that we worked on for so very long and uh like trying to like finalize it and get it perfect in that um, uh, hoedown, throw down, uh line dance one.

MJ: 1:13:38

The um grapevines Lasso. It's called lassos and line dance. I believe it's a medium flow. I'll pop it up here, but yes, uh, we grapevines.

Kat: 1:13:50

They're like a staple for like basic movement and it's like try, like a staple for like basic movement and it's like try, like you know we've done step together, step, that's one thing, but it's like if you're gonna do country line dancing, you really need to be able to grapevine. And I think I'm pretty sure do you want to taught how to?

MJ: 1:14:06

do a grapevine in the warm-up.

Kat: 1:14:07

Like, yeah, it's, it's. You know, like, how many triangles do we use? How many is too much? Like. You know, like how what conveys this? You know, like, are we actually do we use? How many is too much? Like you know, like how what conveys this? You know, like, are we actually going to try to ask people to step, step behind? You know, you step, you step right, you step behind left, you stepped out right again and then you have to switch to the other direction. It's like just trying like this is a move that, like jr and I could do in our sleep but really really honing in on how to convey that information visually when you're not like footprints on the ground right it's just triangles, like where your body should be in space.

Kat: 1:14:46

We like really really sweat the details on that. I still not. I'm not sure it's perfect, but but we really really wanted it to be I tried, I think, for for what supernatural is, it is perfect.

MJ: 1:15:01

Because you can't put feet on the ground, you can't uh, move forward and backwards. You know you can't put targets or triangles in that way. I I think you guys did an incredible job. I remember when that workout came out and the community was so crazy about it. I played it and I watched the warmup because one of my friends was like there's a grapevine and I bet. And I said I bet to want to talks about it in the warmup. So let I won't skip it, I'll listen and I love when you guys add that kind of extra special stuff in it, because if it's too much for some people they can just do the triangles, but for people who want, they can just right, just step side to side.

Kat: 1:15:42

It works.

Kat: 1:15:43

But if you want it to feel like, you know like, if you want it to feel like a line dance, do it as a grapevine. You know like, do that boot scoot when, when that, that time comes. You know that's stuff we can't show you to do, but it's we allowed for it. The timing is there, the space is there. I think we yeah, I think we were trying to do it with knee strikes. I think it was like after knee strikes came out. It's so funny because I've I wasn't there from the start, but I was there for developing the knee strikes and doing that and also developing boxing and going there and boxing.

Kat: 1:16:26

I have to say it's funny because as a dancer, I love flow and I do flow and I enjoy flow, but I adore the boxing and I adore the problem solving. I think this is the puzzle person in me, because I am a huge like puzzle person. The problem solving of boxing makes me happy in a very special way because we have a. So basically I'm going to say four. You know we have styles of hunches. You have your front punches, you have your uppercuts and you have your hooks. I mean, technically we have body hooks as well as hop hooks.

Kat: 1:17:08

So limited vocabulary, very limited vocabulary, and then you've got your slides and your ducks and your blocks. That's it. We have a ton of snippets for flow. We have a ton of things that we can do for flow. Flow is almost is a little like when you get in a blank page. In flow, it's almost overwhelming because there's just so much you could possibly do. But boxing it's like well, you only have these, these things, and you need to make everything work from these. You know this, these things, and you need to make everything work from these. You know this list of ingredients, and making it musical and fun and also feel like boxing with that limited palette is really super intriguing to me.

MJ: 1:17:57

It tickles your brain to map boxing. It sounds like you almost prefer to map boxing.

Kat: 1:18:05

It depends. There are songs that are boxing songs, songs that just live in boxing.

MJ: 1:18:13

For sure.

Kat: 1:18:14

And then there are songs that are much better suited to flow. So, and it's funny because I've done some songs in both, like I think I want to say. I did Encanto, I did Under Pressure In boxing and in flow. I think. So I'm not positive. No, I'm not sure. If it was, if, if that, if it was, because I think we did, did we do encounter in boxing?

MJ: 1:18:47

I'm not sure you did maybe think of a different, I remember. Okay, I will look as you are telling the story and if it's wrong then but yeah it's, um, but uh, yeah, it's, it's.

Kat: 1:18:59

And it's interesting to to look and think about a song in both dimensions, like what you hit in one song. What's the accents that you hit in this song that you would hit in another?

MJ: 1:19:13

Yeah, the difference what parts of the music you would focus on.

Kat: 1:19:17

You're right, that is interesting yeah of the music you would focus on. You're right, that is interesting. Yeah, hmm, and there's a lot. I mean nowadays there's. There's quite a few songs that have been done in, in both boxing and flow, so Surface pressure is in boxing and flow. Yep, and I did both of those.

MJ: 1:19:34

Really. Oh, that's pretty neat, oh man.

Kat: 1:19:45

Now I got to go see the difference. What parts of the music and movement you decided for us to play, I don't even know, because it was like probably a year between doing the first one. We did Flow first for a while and then we did like a special Encanto thing and trying to figure out, like I think that what were the other songs in that In the Encanto there were in the boxing the family Madrigal.

MJ: 1:20:08

We don't talk about Bruno, which is also in flow. Yeah, what else can I do? I don't think that's in flow, I don't think that is. And then Columbia, which I believe that's the last song in the flow one In the flow.

Kat: 1:20:24

Yeah, I think I did what Else Can I Do. I'm pretty sure I did what Else Can I Do as well in that one. I think I did those two.

MJ: 1:20:30

The two sisters, obviously yes, I'm hearing it in my head. What else can I?

Kat: 1:20:47

I'm not going to sing it, but I can hear it.

MJ: 1:20:49

Yeah, it's the. It's what? As soon as I can't, I forget her name, but the the eldest sister the perfect one as soon as she.

MJ: 1:21:01

There's a song that you mapped recently in a monster. The monster is a medium flow monster. Shake it off, the very last song. I may have squealed with excitement when I realized you placed the triangles in that way at during the Taylor Swift song. When it goes, shake it off so that I would shake and shimmy and it was so awesome. That's one of those hidden things where it's like I can tell you really put a lot of thought, how can I make them do this? And it helped that D'Wana also called it out too, you know, but I just thought that was fantastic. That's a real Easter egg to me in a game.

Kat: 1:21:47

You know, yes, that's something. That song was choreographed around that concept, because I'm like, what can I do? I was thinking, what do I do? Shake it off, shake it off. And I considered that and I kept it off and I'm like I really just want to do a shoulder shimmy. I just want to like that's how I feel, like you know that song should go. And, um, I spent a lot of time watching the video for that and I'm like there's not a lot I can pick up from here.

MJ: 1:22:15

No, it's pretty basic with I.

Kat: 1:22:18

Actually that was a song where I went really hard in the cheerleading section. My boyfriend has a new, yeah, so I went really hard and they're like, okay, chill out, that's too much. That's too much, it's just, this is the end of a monster, a medium monster, and that is definitely high. So I'm like, okay, fine.

MJ: 1:22:46

But um yeah that.

Kat: 1:22:48

That that one was just like pure joy and I and what's funny is I had done. I also did Vampire, which came just I think the song right before that Vampire, which is I think the song right before that Vampire, yeah.

Kat: 1:23:01

I was not familiar with that song until I choreographed it. I was working on it and I was like, well, this is really slow and slow. And then it kicked in. I'm like, oh okay, All right, we're going to have some fun with this. And yeah, that was just a really good thing. I tag teamed that one with Lowry, who did some really great work on some of the other stuff, so that was a very solid monster and I was very happy to be involved with that.

MJ: 1:23:34

Yeah, I really enjoyed this. I was like, oh no, all the death thoughts I have to do a monster, but I was very, very, very happy with it. It was a solid medium. It was fun, it had surprises, the movements felt so comfortable. I really, really enjoyed this monster. I was happy when you called it out before we came here to do this because I had never played it.

Kat: 1:24:02

Oh, wow.

MJ: 1:24:03

I had never played it, and so when you sent it to me and said, well, I worked on it, I was like, okay, well, I'm going to do it. And so I did it and I was very, very happy. I would not have picked it for myself, even though I like the majority of the music.

Kat: 1:24:27

So I don't know why. To me, I was like no, this one's not for me. I'm going to do a quote that I'm not going to attribute it because I don't want to like out somebody, but one of the coaches who played it and I'm not even sure if it's the coach that did it, so it's not, I don't. I, in fact, I don't think it's the coach who did it, but a coach played through it and said I am not a Swifty, it's like, and I saw this and I was dreading it and I played through it and I loved every last second of it and I'm like yes, it's always so good when we can get somebody who's like yeah, I do not like this music, but you made me like, if you can make somebody enjoy music that they didn't like, that is just like oh, that's so good.

MJ: 1:24:58

I absolutely agree with that, because there are a lot of times when I'm with friends working out and we're playing workouts that just came out and it's not necessarily music I like, like country. I am not a country fan. However, the last few country workouts that have been put out have been so fun that I've actually caught myself singing and saying that I've enjoyed them. And to be able to do that that's the magic of Supernatural for me. It's just takes it to a whole new level. I would never have imagined I'd be in there doing that or playing the retrofits. That's not my jam to work out to, but I enjoy them. You know that's your jams. You love retrofits.

Kat: 1:25:44

I love retrofits, yeah, and part of it also helps that, like for like, I think the better you know a song, the more you can like pick stuff up off of or out of it Because my husband like I said my husband has done did a cover band with his friend and it was an 80s cover band.

Kat: 1:26:05

So for six years they did like I think they had like a 200 song set list and almost all of the songs that they used to play are in the game. So like knowing those songs and coming it out and one of the things that the game so like knowing those songs and coming it out and one of the things that, um, people of my age will know, that there is a chant that goes along with moni moni that is not in the song. It is like, um, uh, here she comes out going moni moni. Um, I don't know what your rating is, I don't want to spoil it.

Kat: 1:26:43

No, you're good, but there's get, get and that's said there. Yeah, bleeped out. Every time that gives you a hint, it's a natural. But every time I hear that song, I hear that part of the song even though it's not in there, because every time I would hear it with friends it would get sung.

MJ: 1:27:03

Right.

Kat: 1:27:03

So, and when they would do it in the band, it would get sung by the audience. So I always choreograph to that, so like if you're doing it, like if you do a boxing money money it possibly is me and and you will hear the get, get, it's really there.

MJ: 1:27:23

I love that, and so now, because you know people who are fans, they're probably singing that part, even though it's not actually in Supernatural, and so now they'll hit the move with it too. That's rad, I like that.

Kat: 1:27:35

You add that that's another Easter egg. That's an Easter egg Also sweet, georgia brown. I've done once or twice and I think in the medium it has the dun, dun, dun, I mean, which is not there, but everybody sings it like sweet. Yeah, georgia brown, am I doing the right song? Caroline, sweet caroline, sweet, caroline, yeah, good times ever. Yeah, yeah, that's always there. When I do it it's like, yeah, it's not in the music but it is there, because if you know that music it's there and if you don't know that music, you should know it, because when you hear it in public, people are gonna be singing that's true.

MJ: 1:28:16

That's very, very true. Oh man, I'm trying to think if there's another boxing workout that is late. It's called a girl power, but for me it is like a mixture of a shower songs, guilty pleasure, it was the Lilith Force with Leigh-Anne, all of those songs in there. It's got a Landis Morissette. I mean, this one is just like a therapy session for us chicks. So I guess that it does make sense that it's a girl power. Then here we go, yeah, full circle on that one.

Kat: 1:28:58

So, yeah, full circle on that I have like, like. If you ask me what my well, my, my husband says that my favorites type of music is what he refers to as wounded women, which is females, female singer, songwriters who have been through it. Yes, janice, melissa Atheridge, indigo Girls are definitely part of it, like Vanessa Carlton, goodness, sarah Borales, like all of those like that, sinead O'Connor.

MJ: 1:29:31

Yeah, sinead O'Connor would be for sure.

Kat: 1:29:33

Oh, one of the, an artist that I'd love to get more of in is oh God, I had her name and then it completely went out of my head. Um, she's, she did. We have one song of hers, which is luca.

MJ: 1:29:47

Um, I'm trying to think myself yeah, gotta figure it out I'm actually looking up okay, I'm actually looking it up um, but my name is luca.

Kat: 1:30:07

I live on the second uh suzanne vega okay yeah, so there's, you know there's a lot of um of her songs that I that I absolutely love and would love to get in. But um, yeah, but the wounded women and lilith that lilith fair was definitely in, that that I absolutely love and would love to get in, but yeah, but the Wounded. Women and that Lilith Fair was definitely in that category that you're into.

Kat: 1:30:28

We would never call it Wounded Women and I can't pitch it as Wounded Women because that sounds negative and it's not meant to be negative, because they're all strong women and those songs are so powerful because they're all like strong women.

MJ: 1:30:40

But they, you know, yeah, and, and, and they're. Those songs are so powerful lyrically and musically. And then you add in the boxing and you just feel so powerful, like it's a whole therapy session to go into this workout and then hear Leanne be coach. Leanne amazingness, pumping you full. This is the perfect workout if you've had a bad day at work and people weren't listening to you or whatever, and you're like ah, ah, and you just go in there and take it out on this workout and sing. It's magic. I love that one, I think that one has bitch in it.

Kat: 1:31:26

right it does, and we were a little like do we actually put bitch in there? Do we put that in? Is somebody going to get offended? They shouldn't. It's a great song, it is. It's a fabulous song.

MJ: 1:31:40

My cat may come here and say hi, I'm just warning you, he likes to do that. I see him up and about.

Kat: 1:31:50

My cat spent most of the conversation behind us and laying on the floor, but I think he's gone to find food. At this point, you have an orange cat too, don't you? I do? I have a huge orange cat named.

MJ: 1:32:04

Goose, you're in the orange cat crew. There's a group of us that all have orange kitties and share little stories about their craziness, and so now you're officially in the orange cat group with us. So do you have a favorite Joyball? Joyball you guys call them Easter eggs.

Kat: 1:32:24

Yes, we call them Easter eggs because that's what the engineers called them and that's what we have in the app when we're going to add them. They say Easter eggs, my favorite. I used to really love the blue, specifically the blue butterflies, because I do love the actual I forget the name of them it starts with an M, but morpho, I think butterflies that they're based on, but it is now the soap bubbles. I love the soap bubbles.

MJ: 1:32:57

I love the bubbles.

Kat: 1:32:59

I love the soap bubbles. I love the bubbles. I love the bubbles. I like them specifically because you can add the soap bubbles in an area where there's a less amount of time, like usually, you need a certain amount of time so the field of vision clears, like if you're doing it mid-song.

MJ: 1:33:14

Yeah.

Kat: 1:33:15

And the soap bubbles you can put in because they're clear, you can see through them. Bubbles you can put in there because they're clear they could, you can see through them. So therefore, um, you can put them in if you have a less amount of time, because you will still see the targets coming at you yeah so it's, there's a little. I I mean I love them because they're beautiful, but I love that extra little utility that they have.

MJ: 1:33:37

I like that I, only I.

Kat: 1:33:39

it's like I think it's like 20 seconds you need before they clear and it's like you can put these in it with 10 or 15 seconds and you still are going to be fine, oh, that's awesome to know.

MJ: 1:33:50

That's awesome to know. So if you could probably use more of them more often, since you need less time, I mean, and honestly, we, yes, but they really.

Kat: 1:34:03

It has to be called for in the song. You don't want to use no, yeah, you don't want to use an Easter egg or a joy ball. You don't want to use a joy ball if the song is not stopping, because it is more important to keep you moving and keep that vibe going than just to have you know.

MJ: 1:34:21

Yeah.

Kat: 1:34:21

Yes, it's a little joy, but you want, to like, keep that vibe going. So if you can dance through something, you're going to dance through it. It's like when the song drops out, then yeah.

MJ: 1:34:32

That makes sense.

Kat: 1:34:33

It's time for some joy.

MJ: 1:34:35

I love that If you could come up with any joy ball of your own. Do you have one that you would want to make?

Kat: 1:34:43

I have several that I'd like.

Kat: 1:34:45

I really have wanted for a long time to have a heart for love songs I also. I feel like I'd love just a generic confetti, you know like, just because we don't have that, we have bubbles. But just to have something, and I I would love to have a slider on our part for and this sort of goes back to that the, the utility of the um, the um bubbles, soap bubbles. I would love to have a slider that would allow us to control the length of it. So it would be great to have something that would just go like if you just want to pop and then it like quickly dissipates, cool, or if it's like you know long, but to allow us to be like how long we want that to be because along, but to allow us to be like how long we want that to be because there's there's a lot of songs that if you could just have something that went bam and then it just, you know, went out but then disappeared so you could get right back into it right that would be great too.

MJ: 1:35:53

That would be so cool, I can see it now. That is, that is a wish list.

Kat: 1:35:58

This is not not like yeah, no, these are wishes, we'll see.

MJ: 1:36:02

Yeah, these are a hundred percent wishes, for sure, which I asked this cause. I just find it so fascinating to hear what people would say but if you could switch roles with anyone in the company just to do their job for a day, just to see what it was like, just to experience it, would you have one, you would, you would pick.

Kat: 1:36:28

I would probably want to work, uh, on the curation team, like, if I wasn't, if I like, anywhere here I would want to do curation if I wasn't doing choreography. I, well, I did in college, I was a DJ, oh really. So, yeah, I did. I worked on our local college radio station and building set lists and building music that works with each other is, you know, something I'm passionate about. So, yeah, I, I think I'd want to work on curation. Uh, I enjoy every time I'm able to help them. You know, like build workouts, um, I really have a great time I it's. It's so funny because there's so many people that come together to do to make Supernatural happen, and it's very much a collaboration and everybody contributes in such a positive way to it. But it is so much fun when we work with each other.

Kat: 1:37:37

Like, sometimes you'll work like the choreographers will work with other choreographers to to do things, and that's fabulous. But we'll work with coaches sometimes to build um workouts. Like asia and I are working with leanne right now on a, on a uh, on a project on a new style of workout. That is very exciting and it's exciting to do that. But then also, like working with curation, like I'll like sometimes they'll. They know that some like there's a smaller team of them than there are of the choreographers, I think right now there are three full-time curation people and then a head of curation who also curates, but like he's, that's not like he also controls everything right, um, and he's like the dennis he's like the dennis, except he does, but he actually does curate, or dennis, I, I love my, I love dennis very, very, very much, but, um, I don't think dennis has ever made a working map.

Kat: 1:38:38

I think denn Dennis has played. I know Dennis has played around with editor and his and has, you know, like fixed maps sometimes, but I don't think he's actually at least not a flow. Maybe he's done a boxing and I'm not aware of it. I would love to play it in his map.

MJ: 1:38:51

So I was about to say come on, dennis, give us a map.

Kat: 1:38:54

I make, make a map for us. Um, dennis has actually helped out um the tempo mappers, sometimes like if they, if we're, if we're low on stuff to do. He has learned how to tempo map and we'll, we'll go in and fix things sometimes, um, but um, and just you know, just help out like cause every team is doing so much all the time that we all try to help each other as much as possible.

Kat: 1:39:20

But with the curators creation team they'll sometimes say, you know, like hey, anybody love this thing. Or like with star wars, they just came straight to me. It's like okay, what do we either like?

MJ: 1:39:30

right, what do we do here? What do we do?

Kat: 1:39:33

here, like, because the problem with star wars and like with is like there are a lot of, is a lot, of, great music, but there's not a lot of great music that will map well, and that's the finding, the will map well. Part of it with that was a big part of it. But then, yeah, like I helped out with some 70s, you know, and some 80s stuff, like everyone's so well. It's like oh, what do you? What like here's, here's 10 songs. We need to make a six song list, what you know. What would you say like what's not gonna, what's gonna be too sleepy or what's not gonna fit this vibe. So, um, yeah, it's, it's. It's a joy to be asked, because then you have an investment in it when you go to court, you know, to choreograph it yeah, the collaboration, the working together.

Kat: 1:40:24

And I wonder, if we ask the curators the same question, if they would say I, I want a map, probably having talked to the curate, I I have okay, having talked to some of the curators and having actually helped the curators get like we had had an onsite where there are like okay, so there's three curators and or four curators with Gabriel and the five coaches, five coaches, six coaches. We got all of them into editor at an offsite so we had it downloaded on all of them, got them in there and we had them trying to place it and I'm pretty sure none of them want to choreograph after being in it. It was an experience, but I don't think any of them would be like yay, I want to do that. I think they like the idea of it.

MJ: 1:41:20

Right.

Kat: 1:41:22

But it is a little similar to writing. There is a a big blank page thing when you're getting into editor because, um, our editor looks remarkably like the environments that you I mean it is the same environments that you are standing in, so we're like standing in the center of wherever we choose to map. It's just empty.

Kat: 1:41:47

And then it's just, it's just a blank page, and you just listen to the music and you're like, okay, what do you do? And I think that it's it's. I said earlier it was problem solving. It is, it is it's. It is exactly problem solving. It is exactly problem solving. It's creativity, but it's creativity in the sense of what movement goes with this music that I'm hearing. What's that flow? And it all comes down to. You make a decision, you pick your rhythm and then you pick the movement that goes along with that rhythm, and then you have to figure out will I hurt somebody? Yeah, I actually did something and I'm like, wait a second, I did that. I can't bring this hand back until I get that hand out of the way, because I was like, oh, I'll do this and then I'll just repeat it. The other side, I'm like, oh no, I have to uncoil before I can coil the other way.

MJ: 1:42:49

Yeah Well, it is a lot of problem solving, especially when it's just blank like that and you start putting, yeah, it would be hard, no wonder. I know Benny said that when they were hiring people they let them play in the editor for like a couple of weeks trying to figure it out and get maps out. So I would think you would need more than an afternoon to create something that was playable For your first learning.

Kat: 1:43:19

Yeah, and I mean editor. I mean now it's I sort of equate it to like Photoshop, in the sense that, like I was a graphic designer. So Photoshop is a tool that is incredibly powerful but incredibly intimidating If you first you know, like, if you're trying to learn it and you don't know what any of the symbols mean and you don't know what any of the tools are, and it's like, yes, it can do these really great things, but you have to take the time to learn it. And editor is kind of the same way. It's like it's, it's very powerful. You just have to you learn what all the things are.

Kat: 1:43:56

And then, once you learn what all the things are, and then, once you learn what all the things are, all your decisions are creative, rather than you know, like, like that it gets to be a creative solution. And then sometimes you know, like there are certain like we don't always have to turn. We try to like, if you're doing a low, you're pretty much going to stay in the front portion, um, and that's all you're gonna. You know that we deliberately make it that way, so you pretty much stay in the front, so you're not doing too much turning if, because we assume that if you're not, everybody who plays low is a beginning person, but all beginners play usually start with low.

Kat: 1:44:37

Um, especially if they're unfamiliar with, like if you, if you've played beat saber for a long time, maybe you're going to jump in and you're going to go to a medium or a high maybe. But we just, you know, try to make it welcoming for newbies. That low is, you know, open for newbies. But we usually try to turn like if it's you know, if you're not in low, it usually try to turn like if if it's, you know, if you're not in low, it usually turns to the back and turns to the front at least once during a song. It's not required for it to do so, and I know that there are even some, like highs and pros, where they don't turn that much because there's so much it's the density is so much that they don't want to lose the density by giving space to turn. So you know, like you have that ability, but do you always use it? No, but it's problem solving and figuring out what works and where.

MJ: 1:45:34

So your brain is this super creative problem solving. Like I love this. You are absolutely fascinating to me. I could see hanging out, we could go to some Star Wars cons, I could dress up. You could let me borrow one of your lightsabers, because I don't have one.

Kat: 1:45:57

What color would your lightsaber be if you got one? Purple, purple, 100% um what color would your lightsaber be if you have? You got one purple, purple, purple, 100, I could. I mean, you've got the purple windscreen going on.

MJ: 1:46:07

It's the purple. Purple or teal would definitely be. But then when you explain the teal, uh, my luck I would. Uh it would only be blue or green. It would never actually be it deal.

Kat: 1:46:19

It's just when the batteries, when the batteries are low, so you just have to put fresh batteries and then you're fine.

MJ: 1:46:26

Oh man, yes, so this leads me. This is this is very important question for me. This seals if we're going on our date and our friend date. No, I'm just playing, but what if you could pick an emoji as a hug reaction in Messenger, in wherever you're sending messages, and someone says they had a really bad day and you want to give them a hug Not a heart, because you don't love that they had a bad day, but you want to tell them you care about them. If you had to pick an animal, what would your animal be?

Kat: 1:47:00

See, there's the easy, easy answer, and then there's the actual answer. So the easy answer would be my name is cat, so you would think it would be cat right um, probably it would be a fox. A fox my two like spirit animals are like a fox or an owl, Like if it was a bird it would be an owl, but if it's, it's um yeah, my mom's is a fox.

MJ: 1:47:25

I asked her this question and she told me a fox. And uh, you're the first person to say fox. I think that's really unique and really cool. And uh, if I have a bad day now, you know, you can just send me a a fox emoji and I'll, I'll get the hug.

Kat: 1:47:41

Thanks.

MJ: 1:47:48

So weekly workout suggestion. I'm really excited about your workout suggestion for the community. It's from this year, so it's new and it's boxing and it's your jams. You want to tell us what it is.

Kat: 1:48:01

It's my jams you want to tell us what it is. It's my jams, yeah, uh, it's uh shower songs, but it's it's kind of a retrofit shower song. Um, it's uh mostly um, it's funny because it's mostly songs that, um, my husband's band played, because uh-huh, uh, take on me is definitely one of those songs. Uh, and it's a song that I actually a workout. I actually somewhat collaborated with curation to or workout I collaborated with curation for because the third song was originally a different song and it was a song I love and I'm not going to say what it is because it's going to be in something, but probably not boxing because I was trying to be in something, but probably not boxing because I was trying to map it.

Kat: 1:48:45

I'm just like I can't map. I was so excited to do the song but it is not working. So is it possible that we could swap it out? And I said here's three songs that I think would work in place, like songs that I knew we had. And so I said here's three songs that I think would would work in place like songs that I knew we had. And so we put no More Words in there instead, which I again, solid 80s female power song and I just absolutely adore that that song and it just feels so good in boxing.

MJ: 1:49:22

So for sure, this, this boxing workout, is a fun time. It is a shower song especially, take on me. The all of it is a shower. I mean you're just singing, having good time belted out.

MJ: 1:49:33

Yes belted out, get the movements. I mean, it's a great, fantastic workout and the fact that you had a hand in helping curate the songs, like you said it, it gets you more invested in the workout. I think, and um, yeah, I think this is a great example of your work for the community to see and go. This is cats, and then maybe they can start spotting your other work.

Kat: 1:49:58

What I think is funny is you had asked some of the other choreographers you know, like if they have a tell what their tell is.

Kat: 1:50:06

And in boxing, like Justin likes to start southpaw, like he'll just start anything, southpaw my tell if it's one of my boxing workouts. Unless it has been re-orged after, which sometimes happens, the coaches will ask for a change of order after it's been choreographed. It will be choreographed as Orthodox, southpaw, orthodox, southpaw, orthodox, southpaw right down the line. I always I think it's part of being the dance teacher in me wants to, because most songs I'm going to say like 90% of the songs that at least I have personally done you switch twice, you start. If you start in Orthodox, you're going to finish in.

Kat: 1:50:54

Orthodox. You start in Orthodox, switch to Sattva, go back to Orthodox. So the only way to be balanced is if you do that alternating. So then you go down and then you have had a balanced workout. So that is the dance teacher in me, making sure you do everything on the left that you did on the right.

MJ: 1:51:12

I love that and now I'm going to have to start paying attention and seeing if I can pick that up. And, like you said, it does get reworked sometimes Songs get moved in the playlist.

Kat: 1:51:22

It does get reworked. Yeah and yeah, so that's. And I almost always change lanes on a hook or a body hook. Oh, I just like that, just feels good to me it feels good to me too. I very, unless I'm doing like like I've done. I've recently really got into doing the multiple jab uh jabs across lanes, so I've been doing I'll change lanes with that. But other than that I usually change on a, like change lanes on a hook or a body hook.

MJ: 1:51:55

Well, this week I don't even know if I have this in my notes, but this week a workout, a boxing workout, a medium came out, um, and it is a girl power. And um, I noticed you were changing lanes, like you were saying it was um, the targets, the jabs were moving you from lane to lane and it was one of the first things I noticed that I absolutely loved, like it stood out to me. The workout is girl power, are in bold and it's with Dewana came out this week. It's got real love with Mary J Blige in it. It's got an in vogue song. It's got Janet Jackson in it. It was so fun. Like this is another empowering. I mean, it's a girl power, yeah, and you sing along now. Okay, now I just put it together Girl power are a mixture of shower songs, guilty pleasures and powerful chicks. That's exactly what a girl power is.

Kat: 1:52:56

Yeah, I just realized that, well, especially the powerful chicks Like I think that's the yeah, just like it Anything, yeah, that just really like makes you feel like I'm, I can take on the world. I take on the world, that's really like I can take on the world.

MJ: 1:53:13

For sure, and the movements went so good. But you tripped me up in the last song. I was not expecting it. I was jamming out, we were changing lanes, I was so into it and there was this it's like when the three bars, the three slip bars, and you have to hold, and so I was like doing a crunch type yeah, slip hold, that's it. I was doing like this slip hold, crunch situation and I was coming back and around and I was not expecting that block to be there, and I'm usually good about staying in guard. I was too into the music and I missed that block and I was like oh, and then just kept on going. But um, but yeah, now when I go to play it again, I'll know to be prepared.

Kat: 1:53:58

Yeah.

MJ: 1:53:58

It's probably wasn't tricky, it was a me problem no to be prepared. Yeah, it's probably wasn't tricky, it was a me problem. Yeah, I have no. Now you'll see hundreds on it instead of 99.9 is because I was like man. I can't wait to come to her and tell her look, look at my score. I got you a diamond and a hundred. No, it was a 99.9. I missed what. I miss that one block.

MJ: 1:54:18

No, it was fantastic workout, fantastic workout and I can't wait for the community to go play it. And when they play your workout, suggestion, make sure you rate it. Guys, like, look to the left after you're done the workout and it will come up with a little screen hit love, like all the things movement. You know, whatever your feelings on the workout, it's important. That's how they hear our thoughts and we get get new cool workouts like the ones we just experienced, if we liked them or not that workout, because we didn't like that one, it's important, you know. It's important that they hear our feedback.

Kat: 1:54:54

It is, and so few people I mean honestly, from the amount of people that rate workouts is fairly low, because most people just miss it or don't realize that they can. So your voice if you rate the workouts this is a little tip for you your voice is probably amplified by a thousand percent if you rate, because not everybody rates. So the people who do rate actually have more say in how how things go going forward.

MJ: 1:55:33

I think that's really awesome that you guys pay attention to that and hear our feedback.

Kat: 1:55:39

We care a lot If you send us feedback in pretty much any way, like through the.

Kat: 1:55:52

Facebook group there are people in the Facebook group all the time. That's their job to be in the Facebook group and like any of the ratings, like any of the write-in stuff, that definitely does get analyzed. And it's so funny because a lot of times there'll be something that maybe doesn't get great writings but the comments on it are just like fabulous, like the people who loved it loved it so much. But then you know like overall maybe not the most people loved it, but the people who loved it loved it enough to tell us in words. So it's always great.

Kat: 1:56:25

We love hearing from you guys.

MJ: 1:56:27

Every single workout you guys put out is for someone. There's a workout for someone, belongs to a workout. It might not be my favorite workout, but it's someone else's favorite workout, but it's someone else's. And I think you guys do a fantastic job at listening to all of the requests and demands and comments that you get from all of the people and come together to create such an incredible app fitness. I mean it's I don't even know how to describe it to people sometimes, like because it's more than just a workout for me and for a lot of us. You got the community, you got the cook. I mean it's just so much. I don't know how you explain that to someone. It's a whole, it's a whole life, uh, style. I don't even know, man, I just know that I, I love it and so many of us do, and we appreciate all the hard work that you do to make it so magical for so many people. Truly.

Kat: 1:57:28

Thank you, and that is it is definitely. We are inspired by you guys, so keep, keep doing it, keep telling us about it, and I'm so happy to be here and be able to talk to you guys about it.

MJ: 1:57:42

Same Well, guys, thanks for tuning in and coming to hang out with us and meeting Kat and hopefully you'll you'll see her around in the community when now you'll know who she is, when she leaves comments places or, you know, likes your workout, you'll know.

Kat: 1:57:56

Oh, I should say that in Facebook I use my full name, which is Katrin, so Katrin Auk. If you see Katrin Auk, it is the same person. That is Kat.

MJ: 1:58:06

It's the same and now you'll know. All right, guys, thanks for hanging out with us and hope you guys have a great day. Bye, thanks for joining us on today's episode of For the Love of the Map. As always, you can join the discussion in the private Facebook group and follow along with show updates on Instagram and TikTok. Links can be found in the description below. If you find value in the show, please share it with your friends. Your comments, likes and reviews are invaluable and I cannot thank you, guys, enough. See you next time.