For the Love of the Map

Meet Supernatural Choreographer Ethan Rieder - Engineering the Art of Dance EP|27

• For the Love of the Map • Episode 27

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Ever wondered how an engineering student transforms into a celebrated Supernatural Choreographer? Join us for an exclusive conversation with Ethan Rieder, who shares his remarkable journey from the academic world of engineering to the vibrant stages of professional dance and choreography. Discover how his late start in ballet and classical training catapulted him into prestigious ballet schools across New York, Pittsburgh, and LA. Ethan's fascinating pivot to VR choreography began with a friend's headset and led him to Supernatural, where his talents now shape immersive workout experiences.

Ethan dives into the nitty-gritty of mapping workouts for Supernatural, where choreographers don't just follow a script but actively collaborate on music selection and workout creation. From crafting a Pro Zone workout with vibrant poppy tracks to innovatively integrating classical elements in the Swan Lake workout, Ethan reveals the magic behind the scenes. He discusses the thrill and challenges of bringing personal music preferences to life, the complexity of high-intensity routines, and the importance of intuitive movement that makes each workout feel natural and engaging. 

Ethan's insights showcase the creativity and collaboration that make Supernatural a standout in the world of VR fitness. Tune in for an inspiring episode that celebrates the transformative power of dance and technology.


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Ethan:

Internally we had a little bit of an introduction, but this is definitely the first one to the community More towards like pop punk, you know, pre-inday, like I'm for romance you can see the shirt. Maybe we can get some more dancey poppy, like bright music, into prose and most of the time I'm very, I feel very nose to the grindstone and just sort of get in and start going. It was a long song to choreograph and I was definitely very excited to do it, but the time changes, the tempo changes. We've gotten the coaches in the editor a couple of times.

MJ:

Welcome back to another episode of For the Love of the Map, where we chat all things supernatural choreography and finding joy and movement. I'm your mapping obsessed host, MJ, and today I am so excited because I have the honor of bringing supernatural choreographer Ethan Ryder to the show for all of you to meet Welcome dude, hey everybody, hi, good to meet you, good to see you. You're like an enigma, the whole mapping team and so the fact that you're here today is a huge deal, and we appreciate that.

Ethan:

Yeah, I'm super excited to be here. It's going to be fun.

MJ:

Awesome. So is this your first like introduction to the community, sort of not official officially.

Ethan:

I think so. Internally we had a little bit of an introduction, but this is definitely the first one to the community itself right, and there's like a hundred thousand people in the facebook group now.

MJ:

It's a lot of people who want to know all the things about you guys. Is that weird? Yeah?

Ethan:

it's I've. I mean, you know, I've never been super big on social media, so having such a big group of people know who I am or know of what I do is definitely a bit overwhelming at times, but it's exciting, so happy to hear what everyone has to say and what they want to know, and happy to share it.

MJ:

That's awesome. It's funny because when I was prepping for this, I went deep diving, like I always do, and I could hardly find anything about you on social media. So you've definitely kept that locked down and I respect that. Especially nowadays when everyone's out on the internet and you can find out all the things about everyone. Basically it's interesting, mysterious. So one thing I did find out is that you are a classically trained in ballet. Am I right or wrong?

Ethan:

Yes, I've trained in ballet contemporary modern dance. I started a little later in life but I've performed professionally trained at a ballet school in New York, pittsburgh and LA. Yeah, that's pretty neat. What made you decide to go?

MJ:

study dance LA. Yeah, that's pretty neat. That's my background.

Ethan:

What made you decide to go study dance? I always say that I kind of just like fell into, never really pursued it a whole lot outside of just recreationally. And then while I was in college I met someone who taught dance and cut their own company and just through conversation I told them to be really full to train and do do what they do in the shows so he can dance and dance on the stars. And he said I had the right build for it and he could train me, and so I just started it. The rest is history.

MJ:

Yes, that's so cool. I love that and I love that you're just upfront and honest, that you started that later on in life. You can really restart your whole life at any point and the fact that you went after. Something like dance is fascinating to me, fantasize about like quitting my whole regular life and like going to dance school and learning how to dance. So you did that anyway yeah that's pretty neat.

MJ:

So you mentioned, or you touched on, playing instruments in high school. And so you're creative, you do dancing. You're creative, you do dancing, you're musically inclined, perfect fit for a choreographer and VR. Yeah.

Ethan:

And I think it helped a little too that I was in school for engineering before I started dance. So I think that was a little cherry on top that they might have been looking for, which got me in the door cherry on top that they roofed my event, money for which was got me in the door.

MJ:

Did you do um choreography or choreographing songs for your dance company before um supernatural?

Ethan:

yeah, I sort of jumped around between different groups, but, um, I did do a bit of choreographing, which I really started to enjoy a lot, um, and so I think that definitely was a big catalyst for getting into supernatural got it.

MJ:

So did you own a vr headset before supernatural?

Ethan:

I didn't it was yeah it was still around the time when it was just starting to get bigger and I had a friend who had one, so I I would play like beat saber and, uh, a bunch of other stuff on his and I was always super excited by it because you know it's, it's all around and not just right in front of you like normal video games but supernatural is not a great game.

MJ:

no, no, it's not, you're right, you're right, it's not, you're right.

Ethan:

You're right.

MJ:

It's a workout app, okay, but there is.

Ethan:

But it can be fun too, yes.

MJ:

That's the beauty of it, that's what I love. It's got all the good parts of a gamification. You're so immersed, just lose all track of time and all of a sudden you come out and you're like whoa, I'm drenched in sweat. I had two hours worth of a workout. There's nothing like Supernatural out in the market. I've tried them all, tried them all, and I always come back to Supernatural because you guys the whole experience, the mapping, the coaching, the music, where you are it's just, it's a beautiful thing. I mean, chris Milk, when they came up with this idea, they really, really hit the nail on the head for what people needed in their life at that time. You know what I mean. That's interesting to think about. So you played in a VR headset. You knew what it was. Obviously, you played Beat Saber. So many of us came to Supernatural because of Beat Saber. It's like a gateway drug to working out in Supernatural.

MJ:

What do you think like when you first started? When you got the job, did you know exactly what it was that you would be doing?

Ethan:

Like making maps and all of that. I think before I started to meet everyone in the team and get the idea, like from them, of what it looked like what we were doing, I definitely didn't know what I'd be getting into, but it was pretty immediate once I got there that they gave a really strong understanding for me.

MJ:

Okay, so you have to go in. Obviously, like any job, you have to learn all the steps, how to use everything. How long did it take you to make your first map? Do you remember? I know that's probably a while ago.

Ethan:

Oh.

MJ:

Right. I put him on the spot with this question, y'all that.

Ethan:

A little longer than it does now, thankfully, but it had to be at least a week, maybe two, and I think with like back and forth with the people who are training, getting notes and feedback, getting notes and feedback and I think in total it probably was two weeks.

MJ:

I'd say, oh wow, I I don't know why, but I'm like thinking months before there's like a proper thing, like a proper map to play, but I guess, I don't know, in my I'm thinking I want to get in there and map something. It's going to take me a year to figure out a workout. Well, yeah.

Ethan:

To be fair, I did also start before the app launched Did you yeah, oh cool. We launched in April of 2020, and I got hired in January as a contractor, um, then full-time in July, Um, but yeah, it, it was really it was still they were still figuring some stuff out, but, um, they definitely had a good sense of what they wanted, Um, and yeah, they had a pretty efficient system set up to keep that back and forth going and help me figure out what I needed to know.

MJ:

That's awesome. Wow, I didn't realize you went that far back. I knew Benny was the first to be. You know he's the OG. I'm sure you guys call him something in your circle of people but to me he's like you know, the first, the the one who started everything and then and I knew it was contractors until hired on um. But it's cool to know that you are one of the first, so I can go back to the 2020 2021 catalog uh catalog and find a lot of your workouts. I bet.

Ethan:

Yes, I think what might be surprising to a lot of people is that I kind of got my strengths. They felt my strengths tended to be in more hip-hop and rap mapping, which for me I I wouldn't have expected it myself, but, um, I enjoy the music a lot but it's definitely not my like most listened to yeah got it so it was just a fun coincidence what is your go-to listening kind of music when you're just chilling?

Ethan:

I definitely enjoy a lot, but I tend to go more towards like pop punk. You know pre-day my chemical romance. You can see the shirt. I do. You know that sort of stuff. I like a little heavier metal sometimes, but sort of all over the place. I grew up listening to classic rock in my dad's car on the way to school, so that's got a place in my heart for sure.

MJ:

Yeah, same same memories for me as well. It's great, though, that they thought you were, or they discovered that your strong suit was in hip hop and rap. Um, those are definitely a lot more dancey styles, so I can see why you would be good at that with your dance history.

MJ:

Um that's pretty cool, that's really cool. So do you often like, when you're starting a map or you get a workout comes to you and they're like okay, map this medium intensity and here's your songs. You know, do you go oh, this song, not this song, please come on, trade me. You know, hey, hey, someone trade me, I don't want to do this workout. Or do you just like, take on? You know, do you have a say in what you get to map?

Ethan:

thankfully, we do get a little bit of a say um, but if sometimes it just works out that that's the hand we're dealt and we gotta get through. But for the most part we have a great communication with the team that chooses the music um, so you definitely do um help in that process and make it a little easier for everybody. And it's also nice sometimes we get to sort of lead that conversation and create workouts that we want in in the work in the supernatural, so that's always super exciting.

MJ:

That is exciting to have that influence. I mean, you're a choreographer. It would only make sense to be like hey, hey, hey, you see this band. You know I really like them and if we could put them in a workout, please let me map it. Is there a workout that's come out recently that maybe you've had your hand in the?

Ethan:

whole process from music curation to mapping the hey, I want to get a new side into a pro zone because we definitely lean more towards that either electronic, heavy rock, heavy metal stuff yeah because it really works for pros.

Ethan:

But I felt like you know, maybe we can get some more dancey poppy, like bright music, into pros and um. So I pitched that. Unfortunately there was a song that I wanted to get in that we just didn't have the ability to put in but um. But that was sort of the focus for me. I talked to the team and sort of worked it out and ended up with a really cool pro zone board out yeah, I had to say, um, I was surprised the day that this came out because of the playlist.

MJ:

Um, like you said, we you know supernatural usually learn leans a certain way musically when it comes to prose Totally makes sense. So I was really excited to see this indie list, especially the Vampire Weekend song Campus. I drove around in my car one summer only listening to that song on repeat. So when I saw it in the playlist I was so excited and you did such a great job. There were interesting moves in it, this like backhanded side lasso situation that I had never seen before. It broke my brain at first, but I never give up, so I had to go back and play it again, had to play it again and figure it out, and I played this workout last night to prepare for today and finally nailed them and it felt so good to get that movement down. Yeah, I enjoyed this workout. It is fast, it is hard.

MJ:

It is what we want in prose only. I just sit on the floor for a few minutes.

Ethan:

I was like oh wow, okay, okay, that's good, that's good sides of your brain a little bit, or like have focus in two different places, because you have that. For me, with the music, the inspiration came like really poppy, like beat and vocals, but then you also have this really like intricate rhythm underneath. So to have those like two sides going at the same time and to be able to portray that mapping, too was was really special, I felt yeah, I agree.

MJ:

Uh, there's something that you did that I absolutely love and don't see it in a lot of maps often, and it's where all of like three lanes are being used and you have to really stretch for the movements, for the hits. I call them range of motion hits, I don't know what you guys officially call them, but I really enjoy those and it makes me move all over my room and it's almost like, instead of only supernatural, you can only kind of go right or left. This really extends that and I absolutely love that. And you had that in, I believe, the fourth and fifth song a lot and it was one of the notes I made like, oh, this is good, add more of this. Really enjoyed it. One of my all-time favorite behind-the-scenes type looks at the choreography team happens to be one with you and Asia back when Swan Lake came out.

Ethan:

Yes.

MJ:

I mean, that was actually a long time ago. That was December of 2021. A long time ago, that was December of 2021. But I remember seeing that post and watching it and seeing how graceful and the dance movements and how it translated into the headset. But the coolest part about it was Rainier made that post and he tagged you in Asia as the choreographers and it was the first time that I was like those are them there, those are the people, and I just thought it was so neat and I'm I must have watched that video so many times. I link to it still Um, and I just think it is so cool that you had a hand in mapping this. Did you and Asia both work on this workout or did you do the majority of the workout? How did that go?

Ethan:

if I remember correctly. I do believe we both did, as well as one other choreographer who also has a more classical dance background. Um, but yeah, that was a fun one all the the ballet workouts. I really feel like I can use my prior knowledge to help the movement. I can't really get the port de bras and the armament of the head position, of all the, all the fun stuff from ballet into a supernatural workout.

MJ:

Yeah it really translates well all the the classical sweat symphonies, but especially the ballet ones, because you have Swan Lake, I believe there's a Nutcracker. There's also, I think there's a third one. There's a boxing one that is very interesting and Rainier always does such a fantastic job at storytelling during them. But you legit feel like you're in a ballet. I do Every time. I do the Nutcracker. I did it last week and I think I was off in my head in La La Land just pretending I was on a stage being a ballerina, like back to my 10-year-old self, pretending I was on a stage being a ballerina, like back to my 10 year old self. So you did a great job. Um, it translates you. You feel that the movements you want to be extra, um, graceful and point your toes and do all the things right, yeah, absolutely.

Ethan:

Yeah, absolutely.

MJ:

So you touched on how you work with the curators on the music. Sometimes you get to influence and say, hey, I'd like to make a workout, kind of like you did with the pros, only the indie rock. What's your mapping process like? So you get songs, are you sitting there listening to the songs, then go into the headset to map? You just like dance it out, see what it feels like. What's your process?

Ethan:

sound and just sort of get in and start going. Um, but if I don't know the music as well, I'll tend to listen first. Get an idea of what patterns I hear. Yeah, sort of just get into it, start at the beginning, listen to the first section, try and get a pattern choreograph for it, go back, listen again, see if it works, edit, edit, edit, edit again. And then, yeah, just go in section by section.

MJ:

Wow, and you're playing it the whole time. Every time you're like testing it out, wow, wow. That's a lot of working out in the headset and just work period to make a map like that. That's pretty neat. What have you had? A map that was just so challenging, where you were like this is not going to work with the music, you know. And then you go in there and it just comes together and you're like wow.

Ethan:

Yeah, this is another on-the-spot question.

MJ:

Yeah.

Ethan:

I see it.

MJ:

Because I think you did the Metallica songs in the Monster of Rock. That was the first time Metallica was in Supernatural.

Ethan:

Yes, that one for sure the Master of Puppets more than 10 minutes. First time in talica wasn't super. Yes, that one for sure, the master of puppets more than 10 minutes, or just about 10 minutes. Yeah, it was a long song to choreograph and I was definitely very excited to do it. But the time changes, the tempo changes, just everything going on in that song was so intense in the best ways. But it provided quite a challenge and I marinated on that one for quite a bit before fully diving into it.

MJ:

Yeah, I could see that because, wow, that would be playing. That is daunting, okay, but like creating that, I especially how long it is and with all the tempo changes and all the things, and that would probably freak me out. If I was like they told me to map that workout or that song, I'd be like what, how am I going to do this? I'd be so lost. I think that one would be my challenge.

Ethan:

For sure. And the hard thing too that I needed to remember is that because it was high intensity, because it was 10 plus minutes, if we're just going full throttle the whole time, I don't think there's any way anyone can finish that like it's a pros only workout in its own, but then it's also the last song of a five song high intensity workout.

MJ:

so really making sure to add those moments to breathe and give the people doing the workout some time to get their footing and hang on and stretch and stretch those moments of pause in the song and in the mapping where you actually get to stretch it out a little bit before you have to come back in full force, is very much appreciated, very much appreciated, much appreciated, very much appreciated. So I want to know if you could create any move, so say there was no limitations within supernatural right. This is all theoretical, no limitations.

Ethan:

You could go forward and backwards, go side. What would your dream move be? This is one of the questions you had given me before and I had been thinking about it because there's just so many possibilities. Right, it's?

MJ:

so hard to think of just one it really is.

Ethan:

Yeah, honestly, some way to Even just like a pivot, turn something where you can start facing the front and then turn straight to the back.

Ethan:

Yes, to turn something where you can start in the front and then turn you straight to the back, that'd be really cool, because then you could it's not like a full 360 turn a pirouette, nothing like that. That can definitely be tough for anybody to do, um, let alone having a headset on, but just something where you can start facing the front, then turn to the back and then go back to the front. I think that would be awesome.

MJ:

Well, it's funny because that would be my dream move, except a full 360. I would be the person to say give me a full turn, please Let me twirl, but I get it, but maybe like in a high or pros, only because at that level you should be able to handle.

Ethan:

But yeah.

MJ:

I get the liability of it, so I think it's cool that that would be your dream move, yeah.

Ethan:

It would definitely open a lot of possibilities, I'm sure.

Ethan:

Definitely Do you have a move that you currently use in your mapping, that is like your favorite combination or movement um that you often use a lot I can't say that I really have anything specific, but I definitely always like to do movement that feels like you're just moving from one target to the next, and it's like intuitive, where you can just not even have to worry about where your arm's going, like I already know that once I do this, it's going to go here and it feels, like you can just do it and turn your brain off yes, I call that the setup, target setup and and I noticed it in your pros only, you had some one arm movements where the targets were placed, so you would have one up here and then automatically you would come straight back down, then back up, straight back.

MJ:

So you were set up perfectly to hit those At first. When they're coming to you, you're like whoa, this looks complicated, fast, overwhelming, but you put us in a position for us to just get it. Our body just naturally does it and with the momentum it feels so great and intuitive. Like you said, this is like when the magic happens. And when you're playing a workout or song and you're just like I'm just doing this, how am I just doing this yeah that's what makes it fun for me.

Ethan:

I can just sort of flow through it and just not have to worry.

MJ:

That's cool. So do you have a preference between mapping, boxing or flow? Do you like one more than the other?

Ethan:

And in boxing I really like how powerful it can be, how simple it can be while still being fun and exciting. And if I want to feel like I've gotten a lockdown at the end of the day, I'll stick to boxing and crank out a bunch of choreography for that.

MJ:

So does it go faster to map boxing?

Ethan:

Yeah, that would make sense.

MJ:

Yeah, Totally makes sense. Um, you gave me one of your boxing workouts because I wanted to be able to to talk about it, and I did it last night. Now, first of all, I don't know if you are aware of this, but I I do not enjoy smooth sailings workouts.

MJ:

In fact I joke about it like I see smooth sailing and it's time for nap time. That is my thought. I had fun in this workout. First of all, the songs were super upbeat. I was surprised I knew them all, grew up with them hearing them out about my dad, my dad. But you captured the upbeatness of the music with the movements and there were these really cool weaves where you had like a hook or a body shot from the side while you were weaving. That movement was fantastic. I had never seen that before in a map and I just thought this is a medium and they are adding he's adding this cool move in here. I just thought that was really neat.

Ethan:

Yeah, I think that might be the first time I've used that move in my choreography. I like to call it a disco step.

MJ:

Disco step.

Ethan:

I think john travolta saturday night live with like step the leg out and if I cross, like that, oh, dude, now that's what it's called.

MJ:

That's what it's called going down in history. I'm calling it that also. I said saturday night. I'm in saturday night, fever you're gonna be like ethan, come on now. That is such a cool move, man. I I hope to see that especially in like the disco workouts, because now now you got to go map um that song with those moves in it.

Ethan:

You're like so if I see it come up, I'm gonna assume it, assume it's yours.

MJ:

I'm going to be like dude, you mapped this right, you mapped this one.

Ethan:

Yeah, I think I've put it in a couple other workouts at least, but I've also put it in the shared spot for all our fun movements that we use, so other choreographers have access to it as well.

MJ:

Oh, that's cool. So other choreographers have access to it as well. Oh, that's cool. One thing I wanted to talk about was, like the collaboration process between you and the seven other mappers. I know you guys each take responsibility for songs, workouts, but is there a lot of collaborating that goes on between you guys, like someone makes a cool move and you're like, oh wow, I want to use that cool move in my map. You know, does a lot of that happen for you guys?

Ethan:

yeah, we definitely have our opportunities where we can work together. Um, we're big coaches with the curation team. Um, all we have to do really is just reach out and say, hey, you want to work on this with me, or hey, I've got an idea for this, and so it's definitely an easy setup if and when we want to.

MJ:

Got it. That's pretty neat. I just envision you guys in this room working together and dancing and messing around and like creating maps. That's probably not reality, but that is my vision in my brain for what you guys do and talk about music, and you guys just must be such a creative bunch of people to be around brainstorming ideas and fun things to do within Supernatural. I'd like to be a fly on the wall in those meetings.

Ethan:

And it's great because we're all so different, we all have our own styles. Completely, after a certain amount of time, we all sort of know okay, that's a Benny Mapp, that's an Asian Mapp, that's a benny map, that's an asian, that's a justin well, yeah, I mean, the community starts to pick up on it as well.

MJ:

Um, which I think is really neat. I, I love being able to do a workout and pick out. This feels like benny, and now that I get to I'm learning your style. I it's like oh, this is Ethan's. I bet this is Ethan's. This is um. Something I've always wished for in the community is to know who mapped what, and I understand you know some of you guys probably don't want all of us to know you map. You know it's a bad date. Quit telling me this is bad, okay, or you, or you know who knows. I totally understand it. But with that said, do you have a tell in your boxing workouts where, if we saw it in there, it would most likely be you? Some way you do things different than the other choreographers.

Ethan:

Boxing specifically is kind of tough just because the movements are so limited.

MJ:

Right.

Ethan:

I don't know if I have a tell necessarily for boxing.

MJ:

For flow.

Ethan:

Flow, possibly Again going back to that intuitive movement where it's just going to keep going from. You know what comes after the next one. That's definitely how I go into most of my flow mapping.

MJ:

Got it. That's pretty cool. When Justin was on, he told us that one of his tells him boxing was starting in South Paul, but I have noticed since he was on here that others starting in South, so that tell doesn't work for Justin anymore.

Ethan:

I will say, there is one other core choreographer I know who does do that fairly often, or more often than normal.

MJ:

So that's funny.

Ethan:

Yeah.

MJ:

So Easter eggs, you guys call them Easter eggs, I call them joy balls because, as a gamer, an Easter egg is not that Okay. Yes, a joy ball makes sense because you hit them. It brings you so much joy. They used to be at the end of workouts. Now you can find them as just a regular hit in the middle of a song. Do you have one that is like your absolute favorite to use?

Ethan:

I personally like the fireworks a lot, just because it it works for pretty much anything.

MJ:

Yeah.

Ethan:

Um, there are definitely ones that others work better, but I feel like if I'm unsure putting fireworks at the end, it's just it's a good time.

MJ:

It is it's a good time. It is, it is a good time and it's a good call because when you hit them, hit the fireworks and they go exploiting everywhere, it's, um, definitely a celebration. So I like that. I like that, I like the fireworks. Only problem is is when, if you, when you go to hit them and you hit them down and they go into the ground, that's so sad, so I always try and hit up um on any of them, but specifically the fireworks one yeah, I think that's something we we've noted on in the past and try and keep in mind when we're using them.

MJ:

Got it. So you were one of the first choreographers, like you said, with Benny, back when they had contractors and not even full-time employees. Have you ever had the chance to mentor another choreographer or any of the choreographers?

Ethan:

Yeah, like in the interview process for the choreographers who came after, I think the first group, me, benny, Asia and Lauri, um, we, a few of us were involved in that process. Uh, for hire, dave, ones who didn't necessarily know what we were getting into. Coming in, also having to share and explain that to new people who didn't know what they were getting into had its own set of challenges, but over time we sort of started getting how to understand and how to teach it, because it's not something that is really present out in the world outside of supernatural.

MJ:

Yeah, it's definitely a learned skill. I would imagine um requires you guys to be so creative in your thought process of how to put, how to get us to move while hitting targets Such a weird but fascinating medium to work with and then teaching that to other people. Besides the technical aspect of it, you know, it's really just about being creative and movement, right.

Ethan:

Yeah, 100%, there's so much subjectivity to it yeah that. So like the way someone feels music or movement or dance definitely plays a big part in how they would choreograph. So really figuring out how to not have them lose that spark while fitting in the framework of what we do was an interesting challenge.

MJ:

So was there like a piece of advice that Benny gave you when you started that really like stayed with you and that you ended up giving to new choreographers, like some sort of wisdom of the process, some something that helped you along your journey in this career?

Ethan:

Even so long ago. I don't know if I remember something specific that benny or anyone else had told me, but I think something that I would definitely share with choreographers or people trying to get into it just really know the music and understand it, listen to it, get the beats, get the, get the syncopation, really understand what you're working with, because that makes it so much easier to go and know, if not what you're going to put, just where you're going to put it, and then you get that framework and then you can sort of build on to it sense to me as a supernatural user, because a lot of the times I start my day listening to the Spotify playlist, especially for new pros only.

MJ:

It's like a ritual for me before. I play a pros. Only I will listen. I will study the songs before I even get in the headset Again. Yes, I am sort of a gamer.

MJ:

It is my workout but, the gamification of it and this is how I um sort of intuitively know what's going to happen in the workout, I guess. Obviously I'm surprised all the time you guys put things I would never have imagined, you know. But knowing the music helps so very much. It's cool to hear that that also helps. You know. That's how we're connected, you as a mapper and me as a supernatural user. I think that's really neat. Yeah, yeah. So if you were not a choreographer for Supernatural and you could trade any job in the company, you could pick any job. You could even take Chris Milk's job. Who and what would you do? It couldn't just be for a day.

Ethan:

Like Freaky Friday, let's switch shoes. I think I would love to be on the team that tries to get new music into supernatural. Yeah, because there's so much that I would want to see that we don't necessarily have access to, and being able to push for some of that stuff would be a little selfish, for sure, but it would be a fun task.

MJ:

For sure, and overall, it's for the greater of of this, of everyone's enjoyment, for you to be selfish and push for the kind of music you want to put in there, because I figure you know if you like the music, your passion is 100% going to come out in your maps, so it benefits everyone. I think that would be a fair trade. That would be a fair trade. I wonder, uh, what they would say about mapping like one of the curators, if what it, if it just blows their minds.

MJ:

You know, having to get in the editor, having to to be that creative with the movements they'd be like.

Ethan:

No dude, I don't want your job there have been a couple times when we've tried to share what we do within the company and yeah, or within supernatural, and we get a lot of comments of wow, this is so. It looks. So difficult, it's, it looks. I don't know how you do it. We've gotten the coaches in the editor a couple of times and they, you know sort of to get a better understanding of what we can work a little better together and and they, they have the same feelings. It's. It's fun to see them sort of start where we were when we started.

MJ:

But yeah, it's definitely its own beast wow that that would be funny to um to watch them learn how to map. I shouldn't say that, but I I would get a lot of enjoyment out of that. Seeing uh mark over there, I could just imagine him trying to uh put things together and being uh telling jokes and just being like what is this? How do I do this?

Ethan:

And then to have them coach their own workouts.

MJ:

that'd be fun, oh wow, wow, that just blew my mind thinking about that.

Ethan:

Supernatural-ception.

MJ:

Supernatural-ception. Supernatural-ception. I know Coach Doc. When he was on he said how much respect and admiration he had for you guys, that you guys really do a fantastic job as the choreographers and he does not want to do your job.

Ethan:

We definitely feel the same about them. They bring what we do to life, and it's one can't exist without the other.

MJ:

So true, so very true, and they really do bring it to life. Um, I often talk about that. The coaches are the heart of supernatural, but the choreography team is the soul of supernatural and the and the heart of Supernatural, but the choreography team is the soul of Supernatural and the two of you guys and all the rest. There's lots of behind the scenes people, the company just to get a workout out. It's lots of moving pieces, I'm sure, but you guys just all work so beautifully together to put out this amazing end product that so many of us love and has changed our lives, and I'm sure you hear that often from Supernatural users how life-changing your work is, and I hope you know that because it is really life-changing.

Ethan:

It's always very appreciated to hear it. I'm happy that what I get to do every day has such an impact on so many people.

MJ:

Yeah, it's pretty cool. It's pretty cool to know that. I know that the coaches are super involved in the community. They get tagged left and right about workouts and um things. They say I try not to tag you guys all that often, simply because I know that the community doesn't exactly know who you guys all are. Um, and I kind of want to shield and protect you guys, but I do sometimes from time to time, if I know a workout is a particular choreographer, say, hey man, this one was great and also mentioned the um, the coach in it, so that you guys know and see hey, we see you, we see you working hard. Thanks, dude. Yeah, Um.

Ethan:

I that's awesome.

MJ:

Yeah, I'm trying to think Because the community doesn't know, you guys, or?

Ethan:

the process. A lot of them think the coaches map workouts. In fact it's kind of strange. It was interesting to see when that first started popping up, like mean it makes sense?

MJ:

yeah, it does I guess I always make sure to uh to comment, to take a minute and be, like no, there's a whole team of people who do this behind the scenes. Um, they work together. I I try to, because I think it's just people just don't know what they don't know. You know, mm-hmm yeah, so important question. And this goes back to you being selfish and picking out music. You like to do If you could create like a dream workout what would your set list consists of?

Ethan:

It really would have to go back to my Chemical Remains. There's one song in Supernatural that's a cover, but it's by them for a cover that they do, and it's the only one in Supernatural at all.

MJ:

Isn't that? In a high flow pop. What is it? Diesel Shoot, diesel shoot. What is it it's? A cool name it is, it's like I'll put it on the screen here so everyone can see it. If you're watching on youtube, but um, it's like pop goes the diesel, pop goes the diesel or something like that.

Ethan:

I think that's the name of it um, it's all covers of um.

MJ:

All the artists are doing cover songs, I believe. Is it? That workout is hard, dude?

Ethan:

that workout is hard yeah, for I don't know. I think we had multiple on that workout at the time, but I put everything I had into that. Uh, like I'm a four-woman song, because if I'm only getting one, it's getting everything I have.

MJ:

Yeah, exactly, and it's your jam, so you gotta you know you gotta honor that song to to the fullest. So I know that you guys used to all split workouts Like you would take a song or two songs and someone else, and now you guys have moved more towards you get ownership of a whole workout. I think that's kind of cool. I've noticed that the continuity in the movements in the sets have gotten a lot better when it's one person doing all the mapping. I can definitely tell that, especially like in your prose, only that you just put out that indie one A lot. You set us up from the first song to the last with similar movements and you see pieces, combinations and patterns throughout, and I really enjoy that. I really enjoy that feel of it being just one mapper on a workout. So point is no question, I like it. I like the change. How do you feel about the change? Do you like it too?

Ethan:

I think at first there was a little bit of hesitation for sure, just having you know the possibility of getting stuck with mapping or choreographing a song that you may not necessarily like the most. Um, but with everything there's enough flexibility in case something like that happens, but it generally doesn't. We generally are able to put our front and sole end to everyone. We figure it out if we need to, and I definitely think it has showed a lot of benefits doing it that way.

MJ:

Yeah.

Ethan:

Especially, like you were saying, for that pros. Only, I know it wasn't my initial intention to do it that way, but after, like the first couple, I was like oh yeah, I can use this here, I have to use this here. And then in the last song, just let me let them use everything that they've learned in this workout. So it's nice to have that thought For sure, for sure.

MJ:

Yeah, look, we're both like for sure. I've got one more question before we get on to your workout suggestion of the week, and this is just the most random one. If you were going to pick an emoji as a hug, reaction has to be an animal, so, like, I send you a message and. I'm like, oh, the worst day and you wanted to react in a message to me with a hug. What animal would you use?

Ethan:

You know, it just came to me that some six foot three, six foot four, I would use a giraffe, because have you ever seen a picture of a giraffe and it's like their necks?

MJ:

I don't know, I just immediately thought of that, so I think that's what I would go with, yeah I'm into that, I like that, that's cool. So I use a flamingo because I'm always balancing things like in life on my legs, like I like to stand with on one leg or do random weird things and workouts like that, so I use a flamingo. Coach, doc picked a gorilla or a. Um, I'm totally having a brain fart. That bird with the really pretty um ostrich yes and, oh wait, no not ostrich, he's not.

Ethan:

It starts with a P Peacock, peacock. Yes, a peacock.

MJ:

Thank you, and so everyone has picked a different animal, and this is something that me and other friends do, and it's cool to just carry that on and to know it shows us a little bit about your personality and who you are, and I'm into it. I like the giraffe for you. I think that makes a lot of sense. Yeah, that's awesome. So every week we give the audience a workout suggestion. What is your workout suggestion for the week?

Ethan:

I'm going with a little bit of a deep cut. It's the let me just make sure I remember what the title is. It is the broken dreams, angst and attitude. It's a high flow coach by Mark. And that's also another one came out about a year ago, I think, and that's when I pushed for certain music in there that the first song, the workout. It's a hard one, but if you, if you go with it, I think you'll, I think you can get it. And and that one was like I want the song in supernatural, so I pushed for it.

MJ:

That's cool. Well, I'm excited to play this. I remember when this workout came out, a bunch of us played it. I have a dear friend who loves this workout.

MJ:

It's her favorite workout, so when you mentioned it to me, I instantly knew I could see the workout card, I could envision the playlist, I knew instantly which workout it was. So I'm excited and the first song is yours, and so I can't wait for the community to play it and I'll pop it up on the screen and also go ahead and put it in our group. Are you going to play it? You should play it.

Ethan:

I think it'd be nice to go back to it.

MJ:

Yeah, I think so, I think so. I think you should go play it. I think that would be really neat. And then, when you are done playing this workout or any other workout, make sure you rate it, guys, because supernatural wants to hear about it. All you gotta do is look to the left after you're done and it will say did you like it? Did you love it, what did you like, what didn't you like? If you hit other, it will prompt an email. You can reply back in a novel, like I do on occasion about workouts that I really love. It's important they read them, guys. They see your ratings. It's important.

Ethan:

It really is so helpful to get that user feedback and see what we did right, what we did that could be improved upon, and what everyone's enjoying.

MJ:

Right, it's how you get your voice and your thoughts heard by the team is by rating your workouts. So get in the habit, look to the left and make sure you're rating your workouts. And yeah, thanks for coming on, dude. Seriously.

Ethan:

Thanks so much for having me. Yeah, anytime.

MJ:

I hope that maybe one day you'll come back and we can chat about a new workout that you've worked on or something else. The community is definitely going to love meeting you and hearing from you putting a face to the amazing movements that we all get to do together. So, yeah, thanks, awesome, bye guys that we all get to do together. So, yeah, thanks, bye, guys. Thanks for joining us on today's episode of For the Love of the Map. As always, you can join the discussion in the private Facebook group and follow along with show updates on Instagram and TikTok. Links can be found in the description below. If you find value in the show, please share it with your friends. Your comments, likes and reviews are invaluable and I cannot thank you, guys, enough. See you next time.

MJ:

Thanks for joining us on today's episode of For the Love of the Map. As always, you can join the discussion in the private Facebook group and follow along with show updates on Instagram and TikTok. Links can be found in the description below. If you find value in the show, please share it with your friends. Your comments, likes and reviews are invaluable and I cannot thank you, guys enough. See you next time.