For the Love of the Map
For the Love of the Map is the ultimate portal to Supernatural: Unreal Fitness! Hosted by MJ, the show dives deep into the latest Supernatural choreography, detailed VR workout reviews, and exclusive interviews with choreographers, coaches, and community leaders. Whether you’re a seasoned Meta Quest user or new to the VR fitness world, this podcast is packed with expert advice, tips, and inspiration to keep you motivated and moving with joy!
For the Love of the Map
Episode 14: Meet Supernatural Choreographer Justin Cromartie - The Mind Behind The Madhouse
Embark on a journey through the fusion of fitness, music, and storytelling with Justin Cromartie, one of eight Supernatural Choreographers. This episode promises a whirlwind of inspiration and creativity as Justin unveils his secrets to mapping high-energy workouts that are as enthralling as they are effective. Imagine yourself immersed in a world where every movement is synced to a beat, and every beat tells a story, all while you're breaking a sweat and surpassing your fitness goals.
hello, hi, marla. How's it going, julia, I'm doing good. How are you doing great? Um, it appears we have a guest today. It does appear.
Julia:We have a guest and I think that we've said madhouse so many times on our podcast that we summoned the actual lord of the madhouse here how amazing do you think it has something?
Marla:to do with the triangles in the madhouse monster.
Julia:Maybe it does probably those triangles were wild. Were we supposed to jump, or?
Marla:no, you're supposed to um like leap through them. I think maybe I actually believe the way that they're mapped is you're supposed to, um like leap through them.
Justin:I think maybe I actually believe the way that they're mapped is you're supposed to stand there and enjoy them okay, no jumping required.
Julia:I'm sure we're not going to be jumping in the headset, right?
Marla:probably not so welcome to the podcast, justin from Miami. Thank you.
Justin:Thank you, marla, thank you, julia. We're so glad to have you here. I'm glad to be here. It's an honor.
Marla:Thank you, definitely an honor. And you know our whole podcast is for the love of the map. Julia and I are somewhat obsessed with choreography, so to have you here today with us on the show is so big, it's massive for us. We may fangirl for a few minutes.
Julia:Forgive us.
Marla:It's a little awkward.
Justin:Not a problem at all. I mean, I'm a huge fan of the both of you. Oh wow, I've seen every single episode of your podcast, even the Sunday episode. Oh, wow, I'm a huge fan of both of you. Guys are so active in the community and I love seeing you guys pop up on my feed all the time, so definitely an honor for me as well.
Julia:Well, thank you. So I would love to just get to know you. That's first and foremost. Um, who is Justin, and what do you do for Supernatural?
Justin:Well, my name is Justin Cromartie, as you all know. Now I am one of the few mappers or choreographers specifically part of the Supernatural team. I've been part of the team for just a little over two years. My three-year anniversary will be coming up in August of this year. I specialize in high-flow maps and what I'd probably say medium boxing, which you guys will probably know better than I do. Honestly, what my bit of discussion about? What are some of my claims to flame? Claims to flame, yeah, sorry.
Marla:Claims to fame are, and whatnot, yeah so you started with Supernatural August of 2021 yes, that sounds correct. That's when I started playing Supernatural Twinning.
Julia:Yes, we're twin anniversaries, that's right.
Marla:Compared to you. You've been here since the jump, that's right. Well, kind of yeah. So you said we would know better than you what your best maps are. Probably Well, I have to admit that I am a massive fan and I definitely look for your style of choreography when I'm playing to see, like to guess, is this one of Justin's workouts or not? And I can definitely pick out, obviously, your prose flow. I know. I think, lisa, I think I know which flows in the pro category are yours and when it comes to boxing, you have a tell, julia, do you know? Yes, I think you do have a tell.
Julia:I feel like it's the fast slips for me and the targets that come out of the alternating portals, like my brain is going to break here. The white on the left and the black on the right opposite. You know stuff like that Movement Sometimes a dancey feel. Yeah, using the targets to make you move.
Marla:Block targets, too the blocks yeah. Using the targets to make you move? Block targets, too the blocks yeah, for sure.
Justin:I don't know if I would say that's a direct tell. I think I have a more obvious tell than that. But I definitely try to include a lot of movement in my boxing maps especially. I put a lot of focus on form um and try to really honor the craft. I really enjoy working with mindy and doc especially on that, because they have so much um insight to offer me when I'm doing maps that I feel like there's a lot that I can take from them and kind of stay true to the form of boxing but also add that that dancey flair that I like to put into my choreography. So that's always really fun. But in terms of tell, there's something more universal that I like to do than just fast slips or throwing block targets at 16 different portals at once. 16 portals.
Marla:Do you want to share that tell with all of us, or are you going to leave us guessing?
Justin:I suppose I could tell you, I suppose. So the biggest tell, I think, in boxing for me is that I have a tendency to start a lot of my maps in Southpaw, whereas I feel and choreographers, if you watch this, feel free to correct me I feel like most of the other choreographers start in Orthodox because it's kind of the more natural right-handed focus for most people. I am right-handed, but I feel a bit more comfortable in Southpaw. I don't know why that is.
Justin:I'm getting more used to Orthodox, so we'll see if that changes, but for the most part a lot of my boxing maps start in Southpaw.
Marla:I also am right-handed but prefer Southpaw. I don't know why. I don't know why that is. I prefer Southpaw, and actually I will even go into Southpaw when I'm not supposed to Southpaw, and actually I will even go into Southpaw when I'm not supposed to because I like it. It just feels more comfortable to me. So it's interesting how that works in boxing.
Julia:I don't think I knew that about you, marla. I like orthodox, so yeah, I love Southpaw. Starting in Southpaw is very interesting. It's not something you always see, so and boxing isn't our favorite, so I guess we're kind of just getting that out of the way, right.
Marla:We want to talk about the flow stuff there is some boxing that is just so good and I said this in the last episode that if they left the catalog I would definitely be disappointed. But I I think I'm in the minority of the boxing style I prefer, which is more movement, more dancey. I like defensive boxing versus offensive boxing, so if I could get more of that, that would be cool.
Julia:Well, we've got a mirror, let's just get on the list and all the things.
Justin:I will try my best.
Julia:So we talk about dancing and stuff a lot. Do you have like a dance background? Is that required?
Justin:Yeah, to an extent. Yeah, I would say so. I know I was asked about it when I was first being brought on. My dance background is pretty all over the place. My dance background is pretty all over the place.
Justin:I specialized in a Middle Eastern folk dance called Debke. My specific branch was Palestinian, and I learned that in college. I was part of a small troupe for a brief period of time right before the pandemic hit. I also took modern and contemporary dance as well as Middle Eastern belly dancing in college as well. Both of those were a ton of fun. I learned a lot from that. Prior to that, though, I took a lot of different dance classes, just kind of all over the place. I've learned more traditional dances like waltz, tango, as well as things like bachata, a little bit of swing dance Definitely nowhere near as good as Benny is with his lindy hop. I've done all kinds of stuff just in various classes. I've done a lot of Zumba. I play Just Dance all the time. So my experience is very sporadic dance all the time Um. So my, my experience is very sporadic, but my more professional um experience comes from the Palestinian.
Marla:Debt Care. That's interesting. Yeah, I always wondered if the Supernatural choreographers were all dancers. I wonder do you play an instrument? Are you a musician as well, or Do you play an instrument?
Justin:Are you a musician as well? Yeah, that's definitely something I can speak on for hours. So I love music. Just a general thing for me is music is the inspiration for a lot of the things that I do, and in that comes a love for a lot of different instruments. The one I've stuck with the longest has been the cello, which I have been playing since I was 11 years old, which means about 14 years now About to be 15, oh my goodness. But yeah, I've been playing the cello for a very, very long time and even in that there's so much range and variability with the way that you can influence and manipulate the instrument and its sounds.
Justin:I would do all kinds of stuff In high school. Instead of playing classical, neoclassical stuff, my friends and I would go out and perform improvisational jazz pieces. I would compose my own music in class. Jazz pieces I would compose my own music in class. We even performed a concert where we did a rendition of ACDC's Thunderstruck, which was a ton of fun and super hard to try to play a guitar solo on a cello, but very, very cool. So I've always been super interested in changing the rules of music and the mediums that I use to interact with it. So Supernatural definitely lends into that a little bit too.
Marla:I would also say that when you mention change the rules, I feel like that's your whole MO with all the things you sort of approach in life. Maybe Could be wrong, but at least when it comes to choreography for Supernatural, you definitely try and break the normal what we're all used to.
Julia:Yeah, when it comes to the madhouses, I mean, look at the madhouses I mean that.
Justin:Right there is the definition of breaking the rules things are definitely broken, but um, the first one for sure yes, for sure, and we'll.
Marla:We'll get to the madhouses, because I definitely want to spend a ton of time today speaking to you about the madhouses. I know the community wants to know about them, how they came about, but I want to go back to you playing the cello. So do you play any other instruments?
Justin:other than the cello. Currently, no. I have a great interest in playing the shamisen, which I actually had the opportunity to play an Okinawan variant of the shamisen while I was in Japan last fall, which was super cool, but I would really love to learn that one day as well as the koto, which are both Japanese instruments. Koto is significantly more complex, so that'll be a long-term goal, but I definitely want to learn both of those at some point.
Julia:I've never heard of those instruments. I'm going to have to look that up.
Justin:I should. They're very beautiful.
Marla:For sure they're traditional Japanese instruments, correct? Mm-hmm, that's what I thought. So I have a question about choreography. Now that we know you play instruments, you have a little bit of a dance background. Do you map for the music or do you map with dancing in mind, or a mixture of both?
Justin:That's tricky. The way I like to describe my process for choreography is I like to do what the music tells me to do, and that doesn't always make a lot of sense, so I'll do the best I can to explain it. It doesn't always make a lot of sense, so I'll do the best I can to explain it. But essentially what that is is I like to sit down with whatever song or songs I'll be working with that day and I'll listen to them, probably two or three times before I actually get into the mapping process. And while I'm listening I'll see if there's anything that my body kind of naturally reacts to in the music and I'll take a note of that. Or if I'm already in the headset and I'm listening to it.
Justin:In our mapping tools I will kind of just put down the targets that I need to to kind of emulate that move and I'll just be like I'll come back and fix that later, Make sure it's all nice and pretty and presentable, but just getting like the baseline for the movement down is like I want to have that ready to go. So that way when I come into that point if I need um to find a right setup to go into that move. It's just kind of already there and I can figure out how my body would naturally go from one place to the next to interact with each move in a sequence. But it mostly comes down to the ebb and flow of the music itself and how my body naturally reacts to the way the music is kind of just presented to me.
Marla:Do you have a favorite music genre? You enjoy mapping.
Justin:Okay, sorry about the hard questions immediately.
Justin:So given my track record, this might surprise you. I think my favorites to map to is probably like pop music um, because it's the easiest to work with. I don't mean that in the sense that I can just put a couple patterns up and be done with it, but more that they're very consistent and that makes it easy for my body to say, oh, I know how to do this already. I know what this feels like, so I can just kind of make something go with this beat. It's very simple, Usually just one, two, three, four and then you're pretty much done. You can do whatever you want within that space and that's super easy to work with. But you get something more complex like sweat symphonies and classical music, where things are all over the place. You don't have a lot of repetition and the dynamics are just up and down constantly. That's a much more difficult field to choreograph in and dance in especially. So probably pop music, yeah.
Julia:That's not what a lot of people would probably have said Probably not, probably not have said probably not.
Marla:Probably not because I would think I know for me. Uh, you're famous for the madhouse series, so I think most people would assume you enjoy mapping rock music I do, I definitely do.
Justin:I mean rock and metal, heavy metal, yeah, all of those genres and sub genres, and that's the. That's the stuff that I listen to, um, kind of on my day-to-day basis. So when I get them, and especially if I get an artist that I know and a song that I know, it's like okay, well, I've listened to this song like 200, 2000 times, whatever. I know exactly what I need to do here. But getting a song that I don't know that's in the same genre is, is also complex. Um, especially when it comes to metal, there's a lot of, I guess, overlap between that and classical music. Um, metal is a lot of inspiration from classical, so you kind of get the same ebbs and flows. It it definitely depends.
Justin:You take a song like Black Metal which is just go, go, go the whole time and compare that to Not Ready to Die, and that has its peaks and valleys. So when you have those nuances in the same genre and it changes from song to song, there's stuff that you have to take into account. You don't really get a lot of that with pop music stuff that you have to take into account.
Julia:You don't really get a lot of that with pop music. Well, before we get too far into the choreography and stuff, I have the question that I have to ask. Yep.
Justin:What's your favorite food? Okay, that came out of nowhere. My favorite food is sushi, sushi. Yes, I have a lot of fond memories of eating sushi, the very first of those memories being my dad taking me out to. I want to say it was this old, very quaint little shop, probably about 30 minutes away from where I lived in North Carolina at the time, and I sat down and I just went for it, I guess. I mean I obviously the memory is very hazy, but I do remember the place very, very well because it was so just traditional and rustic and very just kind of like old aesthetic Japanese architecture, which was not. You don't really get a lot of that these days.
Justin:The atmosphere is very different in a lot of these more Asian fusion delicacies, delicatessens, I should say that place definitely keeps a memory for me because of the atmosphere, the aesthetic it was all just very tranquil. That's something I search for. It influences the taste quite a bit. The atmosphere, the aesthetic, it was all just very tranquil. Um, and that's something I searched for the uh. It influences the taste quite a bit and, as you can definitely tell, I like sushi a lot and there's like a specific way I learned that you eat sushi, you don't you?
Julia:you there's like this whole thing like do you do you do that, or is that important to?
Justin:you, um, well, traditionally speaking, I mean japanese look at it from two different ways. You can eat sushi with your hands totally socially acceptable, um, and I do on occasion. A lot of the times I use chopsticks because most everybody else is going to use chopsticks and I don't want to be the one guy at the table just reaching for the food and being like.
Julia:What is he doing?
Justin:I don't want to be the one guy for that. You can totally eat sushi with your hands if you want to. It's just more of a social contract. I think that everybody is like we're just going to use chopsticks. But if you can't use chopsticks, please get a fork, it's fine. You don't want to be dropping your food all over the place. That's the last thing you want to do. Use your hands or get a fork.
Marla:It's funny, I think if we continue to have more guests on, Julia's first question will be what's your favorite food? Like she has to know that about people.
Julia:I know, it's one of my dreams. I already said it in a podcast. I need to know what everybody likes to eat.
Justin:Yeah, I'd definitely be eager to find out what other people would have to answer for that, if they have anything more complex than buying a gift card for sushi.
Marla:You said you went to Japan last year and you got to play those traditional instruments. Did you just like? Only eat sushi the whole time you were there?
Justin:I actually ate a lot less than I thought I was going to, which was good for me, I think. So that way, at least I didn't come home and was like completely sick of it. But no, I tried a lot of different stuff. Most of it I don't remember the name of because I can't speak Japanese yet, but I tried a lot of different things while I was over there and it was an amazing experience. I actually managed to put together a few workouts while I was over there Some of my current favorites too, one of those being the Fusion Fiesta that recently came out.
Marla:You did that while you were in Japan.
Justin:Yes, I did that while I was in Japan, which was a ton of fun. I also put together the Boss Moves Medium Flow while I was over there as well, and the final touches for Madhouse 4, aka the monster, madhouse monster.
Marla:The Madhouse monster.
Justin:Madhouse monster. That's what we went with. Okay yeah. So yeah, being over there definitely inspired me to do a lot of different things, and definitely being on my feet all day gave me some insight into how to kind of keep my body a little bit more safe as well. So it's it's a different um experience having to be in a different country and seeing how that influences the way I go about the choreography I make. It was.
Marla:It was very fun, very, very fun that's that was actually going to be my next question. Do you think being in japan influenced the way you mapped and made workouts any different than when you're just like at home working?
Julia:marlo, beat me to it I win?
Justin:yeah, I absolutely think it did, but probably not to like a crazy extent. Um, I would say the movements that I was inspired by while I was over there kind of unlocked this direction for me to make more flowy, expansive, open movements, kind of reminiscent of the kimono wear in Japan and how flowy, especially those long sleeves that they have can be, and just kind of spinning around with those is definitely a ton of fun kind of feeling the wind and the momentum of all of that. It is very inspirational for a lot of the movements that I've been putting into my maps past that trip.
Julia:Well, that makes me wonder, because I see a lot of questions about this in the community too. When you do Supernatural or map Supernatural, are you in shoes, are you in socks, are you barefoot? That's a huge question. I have all the random questions, right.
Justin:So I map in my socks because I like to slide around. I have a carpeted floor so I like to kind of just be all over the place when I'm putting stuff together. I don't think I could ever do it in shoes. I don't like wearing shoes in the house in general, and being barefoot it's weird, barefoot is weird. Yeah, it feels weird on the car but I couldn't do it for too long. But yeah, definitely my socks, socks.
Marla:So it sounds like you move around a ton when you're making maps for us. Yes, just moving all over the place, so we should be moving lots.
Justin:Yeah, absolutely. I think that's the I mean. Mean that's what you're here for right right get a good workout and move your body, and that's that's what I try to strive for is definitely pushing you to move as much as possible safely, of course I appreciate that because I used to not like move anything but my arms.
Julia:It was all upper body for me. I've mentioned that before in a podcast. But um, having all the triangles and things there to help me move talk about that in triangle training episode last last week um is really helpful to give me that so I know how to move and how you as a choreographer, or any of the other choreographers, want us to move our body while while we're working out.
Marla:So um, yeah, it's funny to watch some of the older videos where you're just really standing still. I shouldn't say funny, but you can really see the progress. I'm sorry, I'm I'm sorry, no it's fine, it was funny. But you were very still and so much, so much was coming from your shoulders. But now, when I watch your side-by-sides, you move around so flowy and you're moving around a lot more than you once did. So you work out on carpet too, don't, julia?
Julia:I do on a rug. Yeah, and my poor rug. I'm gonna have to replace it every year. I think just where I'm because I'm in socks too moving around on my rug and I'm looking and I'm like, wow, this is wore down right here in this rest of it's nice and soft.
Justin:So a very similar like circular pattern and one spot on my floor so I have hardwood floors and I use the supernatural mat um barefoot.
Marla:I'm a barefoot person, I'm not.
Marla:I mean, I'll wear socks if my feet are cold, but I have tried to use socks on my mat to um sort of slide a little bit more, but it doesn't. It does. The mat doesn't allow me to slide in a way that I would like, because there are some workouts like boss moves. The triangle placement in my brain tells me I should be sliding around a little bit more instead of actually just picking up my feet and moving um, and I did try that on my hardwired floors with socks on. I busted my butt a little bit.
Justin:So I haven't gone back. Marla, it's time for an area rug.
Julia:You need an area rug with a gripper underneath and socks.
Marla:Now you know.
Julia:The choreographer has told you what to do.
Marla:Exactly, throw the mat out.
Julia:No, we love this.
Marla:No, I love my mat. No, I love my mat. I love my mat. Yeah, I don't know that I have a mat.
Julia:It's under my couch. It moves on my carpet.
Marla:I can't do it yeah, yeah, that would not be cool. I wouldn't want to use the mat if it was moving, because I I have a trick for mine and I just wipe the bottom of it and it gets sticky again and it just stays exactly where it needs to be. My cat likes it too much, though he's always he's like oh, you got the mat out.
Julia:Let me come say hi, it must be time for attention like I've seen a lot of mats being totally shredded by cats and dogs alike. Um and the community page.
Marla:They like it. Yeah, so I do have a question about the movement that you were talking about adding into maps, because fusion fiesta has way more movement than any other workout I've ever experienced. Besides, boss Moves has a lot of movement in it. But like when I go through and look at and play any of the other older workouts, newer ones, fuse and Fiesta is asking you to like you need to be all over your room moving.
Justin:Very true, it's very true. That's exactly how I felt.
Marla:Is it Okay?
Justin:Yes, well, it okay yes, well, it comes off it comes off.
Marla:It's awesome. Um, it's totally different than any of the other maps we've experienced before. I like it.
Julia:I like I mean, you said you've watched our podcast and you've heard what we've had to say about it that we needed our supernatural inhaler. So I mean, when you watch our podcast, you hear us say those things. I'm sure that really must make you laugh, does it?
Justin:doesn't make you laugh, it's like job done, like you've completed your missions definitely hearing that I have succeeded in my mission to exhaust you in the best way possible, of course, uh, that's, that's good, because it means I'm doing my job.
Julia:So I like to hear that, uh, very, very good, very, very good, keep doing that yeah, because I mean we can go through a madhouse monster without pausing, but that one, I don't know. That day it just seemed like it was just a step above that madhouse monster.
Marla:I know everybody would argue that, but it's a different type of difficult, exactly different movement for sure, yeah, because so in preparation for you coming on the show this week, julie and I did all of the madhouses. I also went and did a couple. Yeah, we did all this week. Um, we also did a couple. Yeah, we did all of them last week. We also did a couple of the other pros that we know that you have done, because the style is the same. I also know you participate in the community a lot. I see you in there liking people's posts and commenting every once in a while, and you've also started putting out side-by-side videos on your personal Facebook page. So when I and they're awesome. Thank you for doing that. I love them.
Justin:Please keep them coming. I think it's helpful.
Marla:It is. So we have been begging for so long for the choreographers to put out side-by-sides and um one, it tells Julie and I that you made that map.
Justin:It confirms. Okay, that is a Justin map. Okay.
Marla:Justin put it out, it's his map Two. It helps us figure out how to move in complex patterns and when the triangles are like coming at you from three portals and you're like, do I turn that? What am I? What am I supposed to do? We can see that how you do it and I wish we could feature that more for the community.
Julia:So anyone listening justin has side by sides on his profile if you ever want to go check them out he's got some cool ones, hard ones, wow yeah, we featured some last week and if the time arises and we talk about certain workouts and songs, with justin's permission obviously we will feature more, if that is totally fine with you. Yeah, because it's cool for the like, like she said, for the community to see the intention of the move. It's helped me a whole lot when I play some of these songs. Now that I know that you've done, I visualize.
Julia:I know that probably sounds weird, I'm sorry, weird, visualize you while I'm trying to you know how I'm supposed to be moving my arms, my legs, my body.
Justin:It's very helpful. It makes sense. I think having a visual reference is important, especially when it comes to dance. I don't think I'd be as confident in some of the movements I would do in a Zumba class or when I was learning Debke for the first time If they were just like here's how to do it, I'm telling you how to do it, I'll just do it. I need to see it. I need to see you do it. I need you to you how to do it. I'll just do it like I don't. I need to see it. I need to see you do it. I need to do it with me, like hold my hand, yes.
Justin:And so I think those kinds of things are important because there's a lot of intention I feel like can be lost, um, from when I'm mapping it to having the coach's voice over and then finally getting it into your hands. Um, there's absolutely without a shadow of doubt in my mind. There is a lot of intention that can definitely be lost within the patterns and the targets and the triangles. So I feel like having a place for people to have some kind of reference is very helpful, especially for keeping people safe as well. They definitely don't want anybody to hurt themselves while engaging with Supernatural. So I want to try to be able to offer a little bit more direction towards how you can interact with, especially some of the more difficult maps that I've put out.
Marla:Yeah, for sure I could see. So forget the madhouse. I'm going to jump for a second because it was a side-by-side that you put out with Mark and it was the very last song of forget the madhouse which is before I forget.
Marla:That's the name of it. Okay, I was on a mission to, to, to try and get a hundred percent accuracy on that workout and I watched you and Mark over and over Like I watched that side by side so many times because I needed to see the form and I was so surprised by how relaxed the two of you are and flowy. You would think no, no, no, no, no, no. This is so fast, so complex. You can't be that flowy.
Marla:But once I let go and sort of channeled, the both of you that's at least what I was thinking when I was was in the workout. I was able to get a hundred percent like everything flowed and and I noticed, you don't stop Like your movements, don't? They just move from one to the next, to the next target. And I think my problem was I was stopping on certain points in the choreography and so seeing you guys made a huge difference for me. I learned so much watching the two of you doing that workout.
Marla:I just wish there was more videos of you guys out for everyone to enjoy and learn from.
Julia:Because we just did that workout last night together.
Marla:We did.
Julia:And we mentioned that especially in the Forget song. It was like channel your inner Mark and Justin so you can hit all the targets. Well and I do think we've talked about this too knowing, knowing the songs, doing the training also helps too, so yeah, yeah knowing the songs for me is so important.
Marla:I know you said justin that you listen to a song once or twice before you go to map it. Well, for me, I listen to a song once or twice before you go to map it. Well, for me, I listened to a song, especially when it comes to pros only or high flow. I will listen to the playlist before I get in the headset to do the workout. I know that's pretty extra. I'm pretty extra in general.
Marla:So it won't surprise some people that I do that, but, um, knowing the music really helps me to go in there, and, um, let go and just enjoy the movement that you put there for us for sure, okay, so yeah.
Julia:I want to talk about.
Marla:Let's get into it yeah, I want to talk about Mad Houses. I want to talk all about the Mad Houses yeah, me too.
Julia:I'm excited for this let's get into it. So first question we know there's four oh, you go ahead me you who we know there's four of them, and we know that the fourth one, like that's it, it's over. So I of them. And we know that the fourth one, like that's it, it's over.
Justin:So I feel like maybe and we could be wrong is there any type of story between all the Madhouse workouts. Is there a story? I mean, there's a story I have in my head. Is there an official story? No, not in any official capacity for sure, but there is kind of like a three line. I have um for myself, kind of just like tying the maps, the songs, the movements together. Um, I mean the the first one, welcome, was geez, what do I even say about that.
Justin:Welcome to the madhouse was this experimental foray and kind of just like, how far can I push myself? I guess, um and I don't even know if this is even answering your question about a story push myself, I guess, and I don't even know if this is even answering your question about a story, to be honest, but I think from a mapping perspective, the story for each of these is the first one was how far can I push the limits? How many targets can I get on screen at one time, really? And that kind of brought about the birth of the drum rolls that have been a very constant staple throughout all of the Mad Houses. The second one was about the expansion of movement. So you're jumping from one lane, two lanes over, and you're just constantly moving between lanes. So that was definitely the main focus for the second one. And then the third one, which originally was supposed to be the last one, at least within the image I had in my head, because I like to work in threes. The last one was supposed to be more about amping up the level of complexity within the patterning itself, not necessarily just saying here's 95 targets, you have two seconds, hit them all, or just being like here's one target that's over here, here's a target that's three lanes across. I expect you to be able to see them both and hit them both at the same time.
Justin:The idea there is to kind of put both of those ideas together and make it really difficult. You succeeded, yeah, I think I did. I definitely think I did. But then the knee strikes became an extra variable in that one too, so some things had to be changed to accommodate for those as well, because the last thing I wanted was for somebody to fall over, um, because I know I almost did a few times while I was mapping it.
Justin:So I was like, okay, maybe just just take this down just a little bit, um, so definitely trying to like, synthesize these ideas of pushing the boundaries of, like, density and complexity and movement, and combining them all together was the intention of number three. And then number four came around and I was like, okay, we'll just do that, but we'll do it more this time. So number four is, I feel like, the definitive culmination of all of the different practices I put together, with welcome being about density and forget being about density, and forget being about movement and return being about complexity and then the monsters being like here's your final fight. Take everything you've learned, put it together, beat the monster.
Marla:Yeah, yeah, I can see that. Did you know that? In my mind the madhouse is a chick, is a woman. That's the story I have. Like we're fighting and not just the monster, I mean especially the monster, the last one, we're fighting a legit monster during that workout. But for me I've always referred to the madhouses as her, she. I don't know why, but in my brain the workout is a she, and some of my friends laugh at me when I say that. But I just have to let you know that I don't know what the story is or if you had a story, but that's my story. Like the Madhouse is this crazy place that you want to go, but you don't want to go.
Justin:Yeah, yeah, I think when either the first one or the second one came out, I saw some stuff on the community about Mark being trapped in the Madhouse and then we had to go in and get him out, and that's kind of the line that I ran with for a time, especially while I was working on the third one. Um, I had so many ideas and that kind of helped me come up with the set list for the third one, considering that I was originally designing it to be the last one of the series. Um, sudden death in particular, the last track, the megadeth track, specifically talks about a beast that you have to fight and that's kind of like this whole idea we have to fight this beast, save mark and bring him out of the madhouse.
Justin:um, so in a way, the community kind of designed this story and I kind of had that whole headcanon going while I was putting these maps together, just thinking about the music and how that would tie together. It kind of made it a bit of a love letter to that original creation, because I think that was really cool and I love kind of having a narrative line that kind of ties them all together and it worked out in my favor. Narrative line that kind of ties them all together and it worked out in my favor because having sudden death set up the actual monster of the madhouse for the madhouse 4 was, um, kind of a funny tie-in and it's I'm glad we had another one, even though it wasn't really expected so maybe there could be another one after that I don't know.
Marla:I don't know about that well, I mean, this is just a testament to how much we love them and it is.
Julia:It is one of those things where you're like, okay, I'm gonna do a madhouse, and you're like, but am I gonna click the start button? I'm gonna click the start button. You gotta be in the right headspace to, unless marla just says come on, let's go, we're doing it.
Marla:Yeah, I do that often to go, you, let's go, we're doing it. Yeah, I do that often.
Julia:You just have to go, you do, let's go do the madhouse, and she calls it a she, I do.
Marla:I do.
Justin:That's so curious. I'm very interested about that.
Marla:What is this. I think it started when I went on this weird obsession with trying to get a hundred percent accuracy on return to the madhouse. I spent a significant amount of time in that workout and it became a she for me. Um, I don't often put stories in my brain when I'm working out, but because I spent so much time and I was I was trying to master this work. I was trying to master her is basically what my thought process was.
Marla:I know, I know, I know it's just so bizarre, I know, and I would talk to my partner and he kicked me out.
Marla:He wouldn't let me play a few times because I was getting really upset that I would mess up on stupid parts that I had already nailed. And he, you know, and he taught me he, he wanted me to meditate and do all this stuff so that I could get in the right frame of mind, because I was letting intrusive thoughts come in my head and part of the intrusive thoughts were making up this story about the madhouse in my brain.
Marla:And he says you have to clear all that out. It's not a she, it's not, you're not. You know, you're just going in there and doing your thing, and so that's kind of when it started, because he wanted to cycle. You know, get in my brain about why I wasn't hitting all the targets. I'm like you don't even play Supernatural dude.
Justin:You have no idea how hard this is Like no, watch this video.
Marla:And I would make him watch videos because I would record myself to try and learn why I wasn't hitting certain targets or was I not moving quick enough or overextending here? This is my brain, I'm extra.
Julia:I told you.
Marla:Anyway, and so I went through the thought process with him and he really helped me connect and let go so that I could get 100 on return. But it's return. That started the she. It's a she gotcha. Turn to the madhouse. Yeah, she's my favorite yes, well, the monster.
Julia:I and like several other athletes have like tried and have succeeded on some of them, marlon more than me to get a hundred percent. What do you think about us having that as a goal, do you think?
Marla:that's easy for you.
Justin:No, I think that's great. I mean for me personally, like one of my core philosophies is that I make maps for you guys. That kind of goes out of the window for the Madhouse. It's still for you, but it's also for me, because I like these really challenging, mentally complex and also physically challenging maps and workouts. I'm a gamer at heart. I like a good challenge, especially if it's in a digital medium. I have very similar goals to that and I love this idea of gamifying. The madhouses, the monster especially, is like a boss fight. You're supposed to take all of these things that you've done previously and go in there. I encourage you to go for it, but as long as you're doing it safely, because they could definitely be a lot. I remember the first time I played back return to the madhouse and I had to like sit on the floor for a few minutes and just catch my breath. It's like, oh wow, that is a lot, and I had probably a much worse reaction with the monster, considering it's about twice as long.
Julia:But it goes by so fast for me the monster does. It doesn't feel any longer to me than Return, which is really weird.
Justin:Yeah, it's a funny thing. Um, I feel like. I feel like part of it is just the anticipation of like one wanting to be done with it because it's so difficult. Your body's like please, please, please, just let it be over, but also like the challenge is exciting and you start to get that feeling of adrenaline coursing through you, especially on those like really difficult sections. But if you nail those, it's like, oh man, that's so satisfying. And I feel like there's a lot of those places in there not to toot my own horn or anything.
Julia:No, we talk about the flying parts that kind of get you through. We talk about that.
Justin:Yeah, I've heard you mention that a ton and I still have no idea what you're talking about.
Marla:He's like what are these crazy women talking about?
Julia:I didn't put flying targets in there.
Marla:When it comes to madhouses, I can tell you exactly what it is, it's where, and you so craftfully, masterfully, do this where you take music and you make the movements go perfect with the music, okay, and momentum, the way you have the targets and the triangles place, momentum just carries you and then it just gives you energy. And this is when we're talking about flying. There are so many sections in mad houses specifically that do this so masterfully because you, you're at the brink, you, you feel like you can't go anymore.
Marla:You just want to sit on the floor. You're like, how am I going to hit any more targets? But then this part in music happens and you make the movements just perfect for it and all of a sudden you're like, all right, I can do 10 more of these. Let's go like it is just so it's not just in mad houses, but you really notice it in mad houses and I don't know if it's because we've spent so much time in them, playing them, that we notice it.
Marla:But I would be interested to hear if others in the community have similar feelings.
Justin:Maybe they call it something different besides flying but that's what Julia and I have named it.
Marla:It's like we're flying for sure.
Julia:I think I feel it the most in psychosocial yeah.
Justin:That's an interesting one yeah.
Julia:That one if I was to pause in any song I don't know. Some of those in the the monster madhouse are pretty but psychosocial. In return, that one I know I can't do it. Yeah, Unless there's a an emergency phone call or something that our kid comes in and you know something's an emergency. There's no pausing. It takes away from the whole feeling of what's going on.
Marla:So I want to go back. I want to go to Welcome to the Madhouse. Yep, there was no workout like this, okay, none in the library before Welcome to the Madhouse came out and were you nervous about making this super complex, dense workout? Yeah, what did you think back then?
Justin:Yeah, so, oh man. Yeah so, oh man. I still remember quite a bit of it clear as day, which is an achievement for me personally. I'll have to take myself out to a nice dinner for that Sushi. Yeah, I mean, that was my first pros only, and I had wanted to do a pros only for a very long time. I don't think I had gotten my hands on that until I guess when did that one come out? It was like April 2022, I want to say, okay, I have no idea.
Marla:You're not going to believe this, the anniversary of Welcome to the Mad Houses. In like two weeks, it is May 17th 2022. Oh, wow, okay, yes, two year anniversary of this workout.
Justin:Yeah, jeez, okay, so long time ago. So all right, well, that puts some things into perspective. Um, yeah, let's see, I know for the longest time time, when I first started at supernatural that I was like I was in, I was doing a lot of, like, medium flows, I was doing a lot of low flows and I was like I really want to do a pros. Only like I've heard about them, I want to do them. They sound fun, they sound like exactly the kind of level of energy that I would be able to put in to a map because I'm crazy. I love doing crazy things and just throwing targets out, seeing what fits, seeing what sticks, and if it doesn't stick the first time, I'll tweak it and send it out again to see if it happens, see if we can make it work. And I feel like there's a lot of open space that pros-only workouts allow me to do, because just by their nature they're crazy, they're a field of their own. And so when I was finally allowed to do one and I saw that set list and I was like, oh, we got mega death on here, we got a slayer song on here. I was like, oh, this is gonna be great.
Justin:And I spent like three days on that first map. I was like, oh, this is exhausting, this is so tiring. But it was so much fun. Having just a deluge of targets come at me and being like this is like nothing in the entire app that I'd ever experienced, like nothing in the entire app that I'd ever experienced. So I was hoping that novelty would definitely carry and show that there are things that we can do outside of what you've experienced, and I feel like that definitely opened a lot of doors for my mapping style to be a lot more expansive further down the road. Expansive further down the road.
Justin:But I remember working on tornado of souls specifically and spending like four days on that song alone. There's like two days on just the solo itself, because that solo was like half the song, almost like man. This is crazy, cause everything up until that point was very just like a B. Here's a pattern, here's another pattern flip it, you're good to go, you can call it a day. You get to a guitar solo that's like 90 seconds and you just have to freestyle the whole thing and that's nothing I had ever experienced before and I spent forever trying to make that work and try to make it comfortable and I was sending it to people to review constantly and just getting feedback back and I was scared.
Justin:I was genuinely scared because I only managed to get three maps out. I had the option to go in and do edits for the trooper and what's the other one madhouse, but I just I didn't feel like I had enough time to really do them justice. Uh, so I stuck with rainingaining Blood and Black Metal and Tornado of Souls and I was like, yeah, we'll see how it goes. I guess it still makes me nervous going into a new pros only and being like well here's my craziness for the week.
Justin:We'll see if it lands this time. I still get those feelings every single time I get presented with a pros-only. I like to take a lot more time with those maps. I don't take four days anymore, thankfully, but they take longer than everything else that I work on, because they mean a lot to me.
Marla:And you have to consider comfort. I heard you say that. Is it comfortable, especially in a pros-only Because you don't have a lot of time? It has to be comfortable. The setup from target to target has to be comfortable so you're not injuring yourself. I find that I definitely notice a difference in the pros only that have come out since Welcome to Now. We've talked about it on a pros only episode. The setups for these, this series of pros only, especially, not in this alone Bring Down the House is so good, so good. No injury, it doesn't hurt me. I mean, I know I'm only a small one person out of hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people who play supernatural, but I can tell that you put in a lot of time and thought and consideration into the movements and it's much appreciated because for julie and I, pros only is where it's at yeah, it's where we yeah, well, I mean we do other intestines.
Marla:But yes, yes, we would like we love pros onlys, and I think it shows the gamer side of us that we had no idea existed. Wait, are we gamers?
Justin:yes, we are 100% gamers, julia, I'd say, if you're going for like 100% accuracy on a madhouse, you're definitely. You definitely got a bit of the gamer gene in you, for sure oh man, yes, 100%, definitely 100% had to anyway.
Marla:I can definitely tell the difference it's appreciated that you take the time to make sure everything is comfortable. Black metal did you do black metal first or did you do tornado of souls first? Do you remember tornado souls? Maybe?
Justin:out of those two or yes, when? You sat down the map yeah, I'm pretty sure Black Metal came first and Tornado of Souls was last. I recall Black Metal being very difficult for me, Specifically because I had no idea what to do in that intro Because it's just static for probably 30 seconds or so. I was like I can't put targets to this. We're just going to have to make do with triangles. I guess.
Justin:But that song is fast, that song is really fast. And that was when I was just like okay, well, I'm just going to have to put in some drum rolls, and this is the only thing that fit. The music said there are drums here, you know what you have to do. And I was like, but we've never done this before. The music said you must so. So we put in drum rolls and it took a lot of iteration originally. I know this black metal does not go 180, um, it's all forward facing. I don't think you go past like three lanes total.
Justin:So but originally that drum roll pattern that you experience, um took you full 180 and I sent it in for a review and I was like they said no, no, no, no, do not do that now I'm imagining what that would be like during well, I mean, surely you've seen it. Now you've played. Yeah, I was about to say I don't know that we would have been ready for it back.
Justin:No, I mean yeah, I don't think so. I don't think so, and I think it was a good call at the end of the day. Um, because my, my level was, I would say, considerably higher than the average Supernatural user, and even the average pros-only enjoyer would not be ready for something like that. And for me and my background, and coming from things like Guitar Hero and Dance Dance Revolution and Sound Vortex, beat Saber, stuff like that I'm used to really fast, really difficult, really complex movement with my body, my hands, my hand-eye coordination especially, those are the kinds of things that get me excited. And it was definitely the right play to make to not have you turn and also just be moving at warp speed during that entire sequence, because it allows you to learn, as a great starting point, to figure out how drum rolls work.
Julia:and now, two years later, you have ravenous or you're yes, you get that exact experience so it sounds like we had to start somewhere and you guys found a real good sweet spot for welcome to yeah to not just throw us into the wolves for our first one and then, like you said, the things that we have now is you know, but if we started with that, what would you have had to put in?
Justin:Mad House 4, you know what would we have been doing now. Yeah, that's tricky, I think. Personally, I think if it was even just a little bit harder, like if I had done all the things that I did for Madhouse 3, for Madhouse 1, I don't think you would like it as much. I think it would have been too much and probably like a little bit unattainable. So I feel like that was a good starting point.
Marla:I didn't play welcome to the madhouse. When it came out, I was one of those people that was like no, I I'm not into this music. This is crazy. Everyone is complaining but also excited about this workout. I don't, I don't get it. I didn't see the appeal when it first came out. My first experience with the madhouse series was welcome to the madhouse and I'm glad it was honestly now that I go back and play them all, like this week. We played them all to do research and I was very glad that I waited because I like the last two songs of Welcome to the Madhouse Black Metal and Tornado of Souls, especially because there's turning.
Marla:But I did notice that there's no 180 spins or you're just forward facing three portals for Black Metal. But it was the first time you experienced drum rolls. And that is just so cool, because now when I go back to play it, and how much we play the madhouses, I'm like wow, this was the start. So to hear that you had an iteration that went around, man, I'm kind of upset, like can we get a 2.0?
Julia:version of this. We always want more right. We always want more, for sure.
Marla:Right, that's so funny. So, um, is there a pattern and I think I already know this answer is there a pattern in welcome that you're very proud of? Like at that time, you were just like this is so epic, I can't believe. I just made this, oh jeez.
Justin:So that's, I'd say there are three, I'd say there's one for each song.
Marla:Oh cool, All right.
Justin:I'm trying to run through Raining Blood in my head right now. I'm trying to remember exactly where this is. There's a part in Raining Blood where your arms are doing these kind of like opposite hand motions for probably about 10 or 15 seconds, and I have used that pattern, I think, in every single Madhouse since, and it's not something that I think you would notice right off the bat, but I love that pattern because it's super versatile and it's not something that I think you would notice right off the bat. But I love that pattern because it's super versatile and it's also very challenging because it's not just like up down, up down, up down, Like you're having to hit at these specific angles and it's very quick and you just don't have a lot of time. So you're having to read it very, very fast. So you're having to read it very, very fast and even if it's not like super complex in the body, just the speed of it and the amount of energy it takes for you to get from point a to point b with your arms, um makes it pretty difficult. So I really love that pattern in particular.
Justin:Then black metal. Black metal is a little different and I know you're probably expecting me to say the drum rolls. It's not the drum rolls. The pattern of Black Metal was actually this really cheeky Easter egg that I put in, where you do two targets up, two targets down straight in the center and then you do two targets outwards and it looks like the Devilhorn thing for like metal enjoyers.
Marla:I guess Metal enjoyers. You go to a concert, that's what you see.
Justin:So if you see all the targets stacked on top of each other, it makes that kind of like figure and of course you would never see that, you would never notice that, especially if you're playing it for the first time and you're not looking at the targets Like oh, that's cool, Like no, absolutely not you.
Julia:If you're playing it through the first time you're not looking at the targets like, oh, that's cool. No, absolutely not. You're trying to survive yeah.
Marla:But I know it's there, so I like it a lot.
Justin:I don't think I've ever used it since, but it's always very funny to me that I managed to put that in there. That's why I love that one a lot.
Marla:That's cool, that's really cool. Yeah, I wonder, have you noticed any posts about someone saying hey guys, have you seen this symbol in this song? Have you seen anyone in the?
Justin:community to talk about that. I think that is probably my most obscure, second most obscure easter egg that one, if you like, look really hard you could see. But there is another one that would not make sense to anybody in a million years that I put in there specifically for bio to join and that's funny to know that it's like your own little signature that's right, that's really cool.
Julia:So which one of the songs in welcome to the madhouse would you say was probably the hardest to map?
Justin:Black Metal absolutely, Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely. It's a difficult song in general. Tornado of Souls was difficult because it was long, but that's kind of it. As I mentioned previously, when I sat down to listen to Tornado of Souls for the first time and, funnily enough, I had never heard the song before I didn't get into Megadeth until after Welcome to the Madhouse, actually, so it was kind of a whole jumping off point for me.
Justin:But there were like six or seven patterns that I had come up with just from listening to the song one time patterns that I had come up with just from listening to the song one time. And as soon as I got into Mappet I jumped immediately to the drum roll section, right after you do that first spin, and I put the drum roll in. I was like this is where this belongs, this needs to be here. I will figure the rest out later but that has to be there, there.
Justin:So that was like the first thing I did and then, going from there, I mean it was, it was hard, but black metal was just so fast.
Justin:I was like I'm gonna hurt someone I don't know how to not hurt somebody while putting this together. Um, it is just really difficult to find like that point where it's still a prose only in my head, not like the trooper or madhouse, because I think are a little too easy for my taste. Um, so I had to find that point where I was like this is hard enough for me to consider it a prose only, but also not going to break someone's wrists, yeah, um.
Julia:So that song was very difficult, very, very difficult I remember the first time I played through that and I just didn't even know, like, what even had happened to me. I couldn't move, I couldn't get the drum. I mean, I got them because the targets are so close together that it's if you're at least just moving a little bit you'll hit the targets. But, you know, then people were trying to hit them with power, and I think that's where you come off.
Justin:That was definitely a whole thing.
Julia:I don't see the power sparks and I'm like you don't need to, it's okay, but your arms are completely toasted. Then you have to go play Tornado of Souls, which is what? Over five minutes.
Justin:Yeah, it's like five minutes something.
Julia:So I was like did not like the madhouse the first few times I played it, that's fair.
Julia:But it was like I'm always talking about a journey, but when I went in for like my you know 100% accuracy, which I still have not gotten on Welcome, you know, I just I kind of fell in love with it all because I learned this music and I learned the choreography and it kind of takes that journey of going through just to experience it and understand it, and it just feels different when you just do it more than once, say you hate it, and then you get out, you know, and never do it again.
Justin:So, yeah, I definitely get that, you get out. You know, never do it again so, yeah, I definitely get that.
Marla:Do you remember, sorry, do you remember like when you were done with the madhouse, it was all the way you wanted it all? Everyone said yes, yes, this is good and mark played it, he would just like hate you? Was he like dude? What is this like? Who are you right?
Justin:um, I don't remember specifically if mark had any choice words for me. I feel like, did I feel like in my heart I may have accidentally hurt him on an emotional level? I definitely know there was some apprehension just overall about releasing something this wild. We had never done something like that before.
Marla:He likes me enough to make three more, so I guess it wasn't that bad. I couldn't imagine another coach coaching the madhouses he is.
Julia:He brings them to life and helps you get through them, you know yeah, oh yeah, he brings humor into it oh yeah, for sure, yeah, so you can laugh a little while you're dying a little.
Marla:Yes, 100, that's exactly it.
Julia:The video he made on release day I think helped a lot of people who wouldn't have normally have jumped into something like that. Jump in and I've mentioned it before, you know, but he made a video that just said just get in and have fun, don't like, take this seriously, um, and it just kind of, you know, look at it at a different lens, I guess then. Um, but I mean, did you set your alarm early that morning? Or, like the night before were you feeling?
Justin:sick. I was genuinely terrified, um, because I was sitting there thinking like man, people are gonna hate this and I'm never gonna be allowed to do another one of these again. Um, but I was definitely just like had my eyes glued to the community page all day?
Julia:That's what I was going to ask. Were you just sitting on the community, like not being able to work that day, so that you could see what everybody had to say?
Justin:I was very curious about everybody's thoughts because, I mean, it was daunting for sure. On one hand, just like this was my first time and I was trying something completely new for myself and for the community as a whole, and I mean, for the most part, I think the reception was very good. I got what I wanted Like not everybody liked it, which was expected, but people were like what is this?
Justin:And a lot of people were like I want more and I was like, okay, good, good, it wasn't a complete show, like it wasn't a complete mess of a show. So I wasn't I. I felt a lot more relaxed after just like a few minutes of seeing the response. Um, yeah, and I, I wanted it to be. I wanted it to come off like you don't succeed the first time. This is something you have to come back to and practice at it and work at it, and this idea of growth comes out of it. And I feel like that came across, especially coming out of Mark's video and the way he coached it, making a lot of brevity from it and making it a lot lighter of an experience overall, saying this is just fun, um, it helps people get into it and be like, wow, that was crazy. I kind of want to do it again, but not today.
Julia:Yeah, I mean I was there when the original, the trooper was released and sometimes I don't remember the name. That was some of rock workout and I mean that got a lot of traction and Mark coached that and he had kind of the same fun vibe that he brought to it. So I remember there was a heavy talk about the Trooper when that came out. So then when this came out, when the Welcome to the Madhouse came out, everybody was like forget the trooper. We thought that was the hard thing. No, no.
Marla:So, madhouse, welcome to the Madhouse. I want to talk about forget the Madhouse. So do you go to them? Do they come to you? I don't know how this works, but all I know is that forget the madhouse became a thing you're like. So welcome to the madhouse. Came out, we should make another crazy, crazy prose only. And then you just start getting to work on it yeah, honestly, I don't remember how that one came either.
Justin:Forget that madhouse is kind of like the, the weird stepchild of the bunch.
Marla:I feel um well, we're missing the first song, so it is we have feelings about this one where is? Our first song.
Justin:I mean, it's jaded I wish, I wish it was something I could say about that, but uh, I don't think I can. So well, I'm gonna continue to email and ask for them to put it back, because I know they have the rights for it because it just appeared in a high.
Marla:So maybe maybe they'll just I check every week, I check, forget the Madhouse to see if the song is back, and maybe one day it will just be a surprise for us and be right there.
Julia:I think it bothers me that I know some people may go into that and play it who's never played it before. Like knowing people that have played that and have never experienced that song, which, of course, when we find out, we will share gameplay so that they could at least see it. But there's a huge difference in seeing gameplay and playing gameplay for your experiencing it experience.
Julia:There have been people, Justin, that have put this on their TV and held their controllers or not, and actually tried to pretend like they were hitting the target so that they could experience it.
Marla:That's crazy, as in people that's Julia. Julia is in it.
Julia:That's what I do in my spare time, okay.
Marla:And tries to go through that map all over again in her living room.
Julia:That's great. That's when for us corkscrews were born, I assume by corkscrew, you mean the circular arm thing. Double arms though.
Justin:Yeah, was that the first time?
Julia:I think so.
Marla:It was the first time I can remember. It's hard to remember. I think it was. We had the first time I can remember.
Justin:It's hard to remember, I think it was.
Julia:We had triangles too with them, like we had to lean into a triangle plus a double arm.
Justin:Yeah, that's interesting. I mean, I've used that move so much since I don't think ever in that specific capacity though, because it's mostly like in a squat now when I use them at least, or a line yeah, yeah, yeah I'm thinking about saying now especially yeah, exactly.
Marla:So I have a weird question about forget the madhouse. What was your least favorite song to map out in forget the madhouse?
Justin:least favorite to map or least favorite to experience, least favorite to map and this is probably gonna hurt a lot of people's feelings this is definitely the hand that feeds. It's definitely the hand that feeds. Um, yeah, I'm trying to think of all the songs there's Lost Ark, get Free Out of the Black Before I Forget, and Hand that Feeds. Lost Ark was fun. Get Free was. It exists. It is what it is. I was definitely trying something new with that one. I at least have an emotional attachment to that one because it's on Guitar Hero and I love Guitar Hero and I'm sure we'll get into that at some point. So that one I at least like because it has some value to it.
Julia:So you tried something new. What did?
Justin:you try new. Oh, it was this down target. This down target is so bad they are so bad. I don't like them either. I don't like them either.
Marla:This is my least favorite map on any of the madhouses, any of them.
Justin:I'm sorry. It's fair. It's fair Are they, the trooper. Oh yeah, no, for sure, for sure. The trooper is at least like decently cohesive yes get free those down strikes man yeah they're not my favorite, I know, I know and I'm sorry.
Marla:I'm very sorry, it's okay.
Justin:I'm sorry, yeah, but no the hand that feeds was just such a weird song for me. I don't listen to Nine Inch Nails, I don't really feel any sort of way about them, but it was just a weird song. It was just a weird song, the weird electronic synth space solo. Towards the middle and the end I was like what on earth do I do here? There's not a lot of moments I have with songs when I have just complete blockage on a pattern, and a lot of the times when I do have that, something absolutely strange comes out of it. And that was kind of the case with Alane, which I know that both of you have spoken about many, many times. That was. It was a period of just complete mental silence. That led me to be like well, what if I just put a target here and a target over there and just be like just hit both. It'd be fun. Sometimes that works out great. Sometimes you get get free.
Justin:You're like, like send it, I'm done with this and the hand that feeds is, is kind of a result of that too, because those patterns are just strange and that song has such like a boppy energy to it and you compare that to something like out of the black and it's like these are two totally different vibes and then, before I forget, is a completely different vibe from all the other songs before it too. So it's like that set list is a strange one for me to work with, but it it allowed me to come up with a lot of things that I probably won't do again. But you know, learnings we're calling learnings things that I probably won't do again. But you know, learnings, we're calling them learnings. What was your?
Marla:favorite song in here to map, since we asked what was your least out of the black, for sure, those opening hits were just so easy.
Justin:They were so easy and that just led to a whole simple, just through line for the entire song and Before I Forget. Being a very close genre relative, both of those are very connected. So I put Out of the Black first and then Before I Forget second. For sure, but those opening hits they get me every time they're beautiful, but those opening hits they get me every time they're beautiful.
Marla:That is my favorite map in this workout. Out of the Black was the first time I felt like the music and the movements had feeling, like you went with the emotion of the lyrics. You could really feel the song. It was the first time I experienced this in Supernatural ever. I played that this week and I legit almost teared up. And it's weird because the patterns we had never seen patterns like that before, but now that we've played lots of other maps, of course it doesn't seem super complicated anymore, obviously, but it's beautiful.
Marla:And then there's these super flowy sections where it gives you time to stretch, but then you go right back into the hardcore drum rolls. It's just such a um. It takes you on a journey. That song takes you on a journey I love that.
Julia:That's my favorite one.
Marla:That's cool to hear at least um joy balls.
Julia:Is this the?
Marla:first time we're saying joy ball um yeah, yeah, yeah, joy balls they had really well-placed joy balls for sure.
Julia:Yeah, yeah, like when you really needed a break, you know but, that out of the black was a really cool one for me because it was the first time since I do comparison videos that I got to compare a pros only out of the black to your pros only out of the black, which are two incredibly completely different journeys.
Julia:The word journey, um two different maps, two different styles oh yeah, it was two different everything so and I mean now I feel like anything we've talked about this before in a pros only before welcome to the Madhouse kind of feels like a high. It can feel like a high.
Justin:Yeah, I definitely get that.
Marla:You pushed boundaries, I believe, forced this new era of pros. Only that I'm happy is there because it definitely challenges my brain and my body more. It's what keeps me coming back.
Julia:I'll be honest those complex patterns keep me in supernatural, so so what was your favorite move or pattern, the one you were most excited about? For Forget the Madhouse.
Justin:That's really difficult. That is really difficult. Julia, Put you on the spot. Yeah, that'd be fake, oh man Well fake, oh well, okay.
Julia:Well, which song is your favorite?
Justin:well, out of the black was definitely the favorite. Yeah, you know now that I think about it I'm pretty sure it was before I forget that had the first goblin mode pattern what, what kind of what I think?
Marla:so, what, what?
Justin:did you, what did you guys? So okay, quick story dungeon and dragons.
Marla:What's happening?
Justin:no I man, I wish, oh man, um, when I was mapping, before I forget and I was getting towards the end, and before I forget this whole evolutionary process too. We can talk about that, if you want to. At the very end, corey Taylor love him to death, great singer. He just starts screaming yeah, just over and over again, and it's a really hype, energetic part of the song. And during that part, whenever I just listen to it passively, I start headbanging because like that's just supposed to do and I was like I wonder if I could map that, I wonder if I could map that exact movement.
Justin:Um, while I was in there and so I started just putting some stuff together and I settled on that final pattern and I was like I feel like a goblin. So it's just the amount of just like rambunctious, overflowing energy, just craziness of the, the movement and the song and just these targets are just all over the place and you're just, you're just in there, like you're, you're digging into these raw emotions and I was like I feel like a goblin. So I call that pattern goblin mode and it has showed up in every single Slipknot song after as well.
Marla:Huh, okay.
Julia:What about?
Marla:Cotton Mosh Well, and thanks to your side-by-side.
Julia:Oh sorry, Is it in Cotton?
Justin:Mosh Is Cotton Mosh of Goblin Mode Probably.
Marla:It probably does?
Justin:I'd have to. I'd have to think about that one I've only got madhouses on the marine right now.
Julia:Fair enough, fair enough, sorry thanks because of your side by side, we we actually have seen that, but I have no idea that that's what it was, and you know I'm not gonna lie. I have tried to do a little headbanging. I mean, you inspire us, justin, so if you put something out and you're doing something. We're like we got to try that.
Justin:I think it makes a difference. You really throw your whole body into those targets. You get a different feeling, for sure.
Marla:Oh, wow, wow, that's really cool Goblin mode Interesting. Well, I mean wow, that's really cool goblin mode, interesting well I mean, it is true, the emotion.
Julia:I mean the way that I played before I forget, or any of the madhouses the first time, versus how I play them now, is a completely different feeling. You know, of the way that I hear and feel the music, because I know it now. These are songs that I would not have typically listened to, or, you know, on the rate and not the radio. But you know, just sit and listen to any of these. This is not my typical style. Yeah so, but now I'm like, oh, that's my song, you know, this is your fault. I'm like, oh, that's my song, you know, turn this up, this is your fault. Justin, julie is cleaning the house.
Justin:I'm happy to take credit for it, oh man, that's hilarious.
Marla:All right, I'm moving on to the best madhouse ever in my opinion. I'm a little biased on this one. I have a lot of feelings, understandably.
Justin:Understandably, I have a lot of feelings about Return to the Madhouse.
Marla:For me, this started my love affair with all pros only, with pushing myself beyond anything I thought I could do, like my self-limiting beliefs, and it also made me encourage others to do it. This was the start for me. This is when I started like I love pros only. Let's have pros only every day. So I guess my question is first, which song did you map first of the sevens? And I'm putting you on the spot, but I'll tell you it goes backcountry ties that bind insane psychosocial sudden death.
Justin:Yeah, I'm pretty sure it went in that order.
Marla:Oh, wow, really See, I'm fascinated by the order in which.
Julia:I know you are.
Justin:I have to double check my brain here for a second yeah, go ahead, take your time, but in that order. Yeah, that would make the most sense. It's like, and the conflict I'm having is either sudden death was first or sudden death was last. And I'm pretty sure sudden death was last, because sudden death took a long time, really. Yeah, I'm sure we'll get into that. Yeah, back country would have been first, for sure, for sure, yep.
Julia:So is it in your, the way that you map to? I mean, I don't know if you put this, the set list together, this order, but for us to kind of ease in and then, like all these, it's like the last two songs are meant to be like, finish them. You know, it's kind of how I felt I felt every time I played.
Justin:So to a degree. Um, this was the first madhouse and, honestly, like the first workout, I think I've done that. I had a complete agency over the songs that I put together. So I had been kind of concocting the set list for that for months, before I even started putting targets into the maps. And let me see, we had Bad Country Ties of Bind, insane, psychosocial and Sudden Death.
Justin:Okay, so here's where we start talking about Guitar Hero. So quick backstory. I have been playing Guitar Hero since I was seven years old. I got Guitar Hero 3 on my seventh birthday that would make sense Fell in love with it immediately and never looked back.
Justin:I was playing on the hardest difficulty in that game, probably like a few months after I got it. I was ridiculous at that game. I started participating in tournaments when I was about nine, started with online tournaments. I did my first official tournament at a Best Buy when I was 10 years old, won that, got a free game. That was cool.
Justin:But how this relates to the set list is on Guitar Hero 6, warriors of Rock, which is my favorite of all time. Backcountry Ties that Bind, sudden Death and Psychosocial all show up in that game and Insane is the only one that doesn't, but I love corn, so they had to show up anyway. And the thought process for that setlist was in Guitar Hero 6, when you beat the storyline, you have three Megadeth songs back to back to back and the last one you play during the boss fight of that game is Sudden Death, and Megadeth specifically wrote that song for that game, for that fight, and I was like I'm doing that, I'm doing that too because that song is awesome, that game is awesome and this was again supposed to be the last one.
Justin:So this whole idea was like this is your boss fight and I had all of these emotional tie-ins and all these things. Psychosocial was a song that all of my friends would get together and we'd play guitar hero. That was one that was always being played. Ties that bind was on this one that got me super into Alter Bridge. I went to go see them at a concert not too long ago. Funnily enough, I think I've seen everybody on that set list in concert, except for Megadeth, who I will be seeing this September. So I will have that taken care of post-Ace. But yeah, all of the songs have some extreme attachments, um, emotionally. So yeah, there's a lot of guitar hero tie-ins with that wow, that is so.
Marla:You were like a professional, like guitar hero tournament winner. Dude, like no wonder why you wanted to come in here and make these crazy pros only. Um man, that's really cool. Dude, that's really cool. You really are a gamer yeah, for sure, for sure.
Justin:I remember sitting down with um that set list and I was like these are definitely the songs that I want to do. And before I started mapping I went back I played the four of those and guitar hero. I was like I want to see what I can take and throw in here and just make sure I have the exact attachments I need to these songs to map it the way that I want it to be mapped and make sure that it's what I would expect if I was just coming to Supernatural as a user and being like, oh, something about this here, well, if it's not like Guitar Hero 6, I don't want it. That's funny we had no clue.
Julia:So you have like the most emotional connection probably to this one. Well, up until this point, up until four, I would say yeah. Your first that you got to control. It sounds like you got to control a whole lot more. Oh yeah.
Justin:Of what went into it.
Julia:The songs. That's cool. Yeah, were you as much in control of the movements and the choreography in this?
Justin:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean.
Julia:The freedom, I guess, to do what you wanted.
Justin:It was man. I was probably more scared for this one than the first one, in all honesty, not so much because of the community reception, although that was definitely there. There's always a bit of apprehension for me whenever I have to make a pros-only, especially in Madhouse and just being like is this too much?
Justin:Have I gone too far. Finally, I'm never sure and I won't know until it's out, of course, but it was tricky because I wanted to go off with a proper closing and that means I had to live up to my own expectations, which is the most impossible thing in the world for me to do.
Marla:For most people.
Justin:I would imagine yeah for sure Creatives you know, and the thing that made that really difficult was having to add the knee strikes in, because that wasn't part of my original plan, of course, but having them be in there added a second layer of difficulty to. But it was also just like an interesting experiment to kind of see what could be done in terms of just how fast we could make knee strikes come out and what would be comfortable. And I'm glad we didn't put them on every single song One, just because there's just no way you could not put knee strikes inside a tent.
Julia:There's no way We'd be running it was something we talked about like the community. Marla and I was like what if they ever put? You know, when knee strikes came out, we were like when are they coming to pros? Will they ever put them in pros? And so that was a really big like there's knee strikes in here, you know, and then you don't get them in the first song. So you're like wait where's our knee strikes? Yeah, I love the knee strikes in this workout.
Justin:Psychosocial knee strikes are some of my favorites. Those were tough. The knee strikes in psychosocial especially were difficult. That song is not slow by any means. The amount of space you have to put after placing a knee strike is usually like one beat to get it up and one beat to put it down. But if you're just going going, going it's usually like two or three and at some point it feels like a little disjointed if you don't have them kind of like back to back. So trying to find a space for them in that song was really, really hard.
Marla:You did great because there's a part towards the back end where it's like and the knees that come. We always say aggressive knee. Sorry, but that's what we do because it's a great part of the song and we go aggressive knee, aggressive knee, and they're so fun. They just go straight with the beat, make sense with the targets. I could see if they were in there more. It would be too much.
Marla:So, I can imagine having to time them would be really difficult, but they're really good. They're really good in the two songs that they're in. I don't know that I would want them in all the other songs, though. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, especially Sudden Death.
Julia:I don't even know anywhere you'd put one.
Justin:No, that's too hard, that would be way too hard.
Julia:You can just put one Easter egg in the beginning, when you hit the joy button the Easter egg yeah joy when it starts. Yeah, that's hilarious or one at the end to finish it off with the arms down. No, I'm so for you, all of these songs have a big emotional attachment.
Marla:Yes, they do for me now. Before this workout I didn't listen to any of these. I had heard the corn corn song, um, but the rest of them not so much. But now these songs, like if they showed up in a high, I would expect them to be mapped to perfection, like they were okay, no pressure, no pressure, no dude, but this return to the madhouse is my all-time favorite workout ever, ever, ever.
Marla:Sudden death this is really hard for me. I did this thought experiment a few months ago where I was going to name my top five maps. Sudden death is probably my number one favorite map.
Justin:All right, high praise. I like that, it's my all time favorite map.
Marla:It just has so much going for all the things. Um, I know Julia has said about return to the mat or the monster that it's like all the choreography is just thrown at you all at one time.
Justin:No, she said that about Metallica. My, bad, my bad.
Marla:She said that about the last song in Metallica, but I felt like this about Sudden Death at the time that it came out. It was the most complex, most dense man. It made my brain so excited as soon as all those portals came out and you're just going in a circle man. It got me in the headset more times than I can imagine. Just the thought of it, like if I hear the song, if I see the gameplay, it makes me automatically go. I want to do Return to the Madhouse. It's great. It's great. It's my all-time favorite. Thank you is the best workout.
Julia:Thank you, that's extremely kind yes, this one had some opportunities for compare, side-by-side comparisons. For me also, that country, um, was the second, like pros only to pros. Only that I got to do, and then insane is in a high map.
Justin:I don't know if you did that one or not? It was very similar.
Julia:So I assumed that you did a good job in stepping that one down but still making it have the same feel. That was really cool to me. Insane used to be my favorite one, but I don't know which one is my favorite.
Marla:I love Insane. I love each of these maps yeah.
Justin:Yeah, that's a tricky one for me too.
Julia:Yeah, I couldn't take any of them out.
Marla:Like I know in.
Julia:Welcome what I take out and I know and forget what I would take out. But this one and the Madhouse Monster have we lost?
Marla:a song in this workout, oh.
Julia:I don't even want to think about that. Take it away. Unsay it, Marla.
Marla:Yeah, I'm not going to put that energy out into the universe. But I would have like a mental breakdown Like no, which one of these? No, it would not be good. It would not be a good place Like.
Julia:I'd be begging for them to get the the rights to the songs back, please and I don't partial um the madhouse monster, but sometimes I will get in here and play back country that one. We're always on a journey that one takes. It kind of takes me on a journey because it, you know, it gets real crazy, but then it slows down and you have the real wide, you know, swing. See, justin, it's very hard to explain choreography moves on here while you're talking like without being able to see them, but Backcountry all of them.
Julia:they're also good. And Marla, she does have that connection with this one. There's a lot of times that she's like, yeah, let's go play Return.
Marla:I like playing it all the time, like with people. I'll play it with a group of people, but my all-time favorite time to play it is alone, um late at night. For some reason I've had a really bad day and like my confidence has been shook, like for some reason, something happened to me and, um, I'm like second guessing myself, I will go play, return and I'm, it's mine, like I know I will feel 10 times better after it.
Marla:I get out all my aggression, just the movements. It's a therapy session for me. I absolutely love Return to the Madhouse, and if you would have told me a year, maybe two years ago that I would feel this way about a workout, I'd be like y'all are nuts what, and especially one with this playlist. I was going to say With this playlist, yeah. Like no, You're not talking about me.
Julia:But this workout.
Marla:I'm almost at 100 plays on this madhouse. Oh my goodness, I know it's so crazy, it's so insane. I told you we were going to fangirl a little bit, but yeah, 100 plays on this one madhouse. My combination of plays is over 100 now for all four madhouses, but this one is is a big deal, is a big deal and I don't know if you've noticed justin, like how talking about them going through and the order, like the excitement is kind of ramping up that kind of noticed it a little bit now.
Justin:We're like, oh, we can talk about this forever how much?
Julia:time do you have today?
Marla:well, and the coolest thing is the day that this workout came out. Return to the madhouse. I had the pleasure of doing this in a party with a big group of people. We got a big group of people together. Oh my gosh, there's a new madhouse and a lot of people are scared to madhouse. Obviously, that's fair. That's very fair, and a lot of people are scared to madhouse, obviously.
Justin:That's fair, that's very fair.
Marla:And a lot of people are like I only do mediums, I've only done like four highs. How can I do a madhouse? And to us a madhouse is like a step above a regular pros only.
Marla:It's like the craziest of the crazy, um, and so we were able to get like a whole group of people who were scared to do a madhouse to do madhouse with us to do return to the madhouse. I think there was like 15 of us hysterically laughing and screaming and talking. It was an experience and that's what madhouses are for us because, we.
Marla:It's an experience, it's a whole, it's a whole thing, and we do events where we do competitions to encourage people to step outside of their comfort zone and get them in the headset. Madhouse is always included because it really pushes you outside of your comfort zone. Even us who play them often pushes us outside of our comfort zone. I could not imagine Supernatural without the Madhouse series.
Julia:So thank you.
Justin:Oh, thank you, my goodness, my love note now that return has come.
Julia:And while I say Pros Only needs a PO and a purple box, you know, I feel like the Madhouses are anything similar to this. I have no idea if there's. You know, I feel like the madhouses are anything similar to this. I have no idea if there's. You know things in the work and works in the future? For I feel like there has to be, but there needs to be an eye insane and I don't know what color that box should be.
Justin:I haven't really thought about it.
Julia:Maybe blue I, I don't know no or should it be purple and then pros only should be blue? I have no idea, but I feel like there needs to be another level and I like it and we want yeah I don't know.
Justin:I definitely think pros only should be in its own category oh yeah, especially after the whole metallica fiasco yeah, the hidden pros on me?
Marla:yeah, for sure, definitely. But then we were gifted with the very last of the series and when I read the workout card that morning and it said the last, I may have had a little tear while I was drinking my coffee knowing that it was the last of the series.
Julia:And Julie and I couldn't play it.
Marla:We couldn't play it, we both had life, things stopping us. I was in the hospital when this mad house came out um yeah, we both were actually yeah we both were uh, her for her son and me for me and it was hard because we were both so excited for this workout and but at the same time, we got to experience everyone around us play it for the first time, yeah, and while we had FOMO, for sure it was exciting to hear their takes on it.
Justin:Looking at gameplay.
Marla:Yes, watching the community was so exciting. It was a monster. It was a Madhouse monster. I mean that's insane right.
Julia:And the songs are so long, I mean we had to digest it all, though, like the workout card and just experiencing the whole. It's a whole experience. When you get a new one, yeah, looking at all the songs, then you're like wait a minute, how long are these songs?
Justin:Wait a minute here. Yeah, that's my bad.
Julia:Are we going to?
Justin:make it.
Marla:That's my bad. So did you pick these songs out for this list? Yeah, oh, you did, justin.
Justin:I did. Yeah, that's my bad. He said my bad. Yeah, this one was a long time coming.
Marla:Yeah, how long from start to finish, do you think?
Justin:Well, I mean, I knew I had to do another one as soon as I finished the third one. I was like well there's new strikes to that one, so we got to do another one. This isn't what I want.
Julia:Man, I wish there was something in this one that just didn't align with you, so that we could have a fifth.
Justin:Nope, everything was perfect. Everything was perfect. Everything was perfect. I have no complaints. Oh no, I I sat with that set list for so long, so long, and I didn't have as many guitar hero tie-ins this time either. So I was kind of like I remember one of my early, early, early iterations of this was just the most insane stuff, and I was sat there and I listened back to like five of these songs and I was like this is gonna be all drumrolls if I do this, and I don't think that's a good idea. You're welcome. I needed to have a really good like arc of just insanity and flowiness and then more insanity and then a good combination of both.
Justin:And I remember taking a look at what I had in my library of songs. I'm a weirdo. I don't use Spotify, I don't use Amazon Music. I have all of my songs on my phone. I try to buy as many of them as I can.
Justin:I was just looking through my library and I saw one of the most recent Megadeth albums had come out the sick, the dying of the dead and I was like, do we have that? Oh, my god, do we have that? Cuz? That would be the perfect intro. The perfect intro for this bells and the dramas like, oh, we have to have it. I looked, we had it. I was like, okay, this is how this starts. And I was going through just more and more of these songs made that one's on guitar hero, this would be fun.
Justin:That one's on guitar hero, that's guitar hero song. I really like guitar hero, if you couldn't tell. And so I was just thinking about, like if I had the opportunity to pick some of like my favorite songs, to listen to these songs with all these sweeping dynamics and ranges of expression and emotion, what would I pick? And that set list went through about six or seven different iterations before we landed on the final one with Take the Dying and the Dead. My Curse, I'm Gonna Mess Up the Set List. So what have you doing?
Julia:Then we have Ravenous, yes, duality, a Different World, holy Wars, the Punishment Due Not Ready to Die, and then Madhouse.
Justin:Okay, so let me think Ravenous is on Guitar Hero, my Curse is on Guitar Hero, holy Wars is on Guitar Hero and I don't think any of the other ones are yeah. I think it's just those three this time around.
Marla:The way you end this workout with Madhouse is just so smart. That was intentional, right? Oh, absolutely, yeah, absolutely, okay, okay, that was just really cool way to end the whole series. And for some reason gave me complete amnesia of what I had been doing for the 40 minutes before that and I wanted to go back into the workout. Like, why, why, like, why, why, like. I just forgot all this stuff you put me through and I'm ready to go start it all over again and hear the bells at the beginning.
Julia:Well, we did return twice in a row.
Marla:We did.
Julia:Is that crazy, Justin?
Justin:I think doing the monster back-to-back would be crazier, considering not just the craziness of it, but just the sheer length of it, being like 44-ish minutes or something Like. Uh-uh, no way, that's a one and done for me.
Marla:Truly, truly. That's wild. I want to break down. This is the last yes. I've accepted it. But I haven't accepted. It's like a lie, I tell myself like I understand. It's the last. I'm okay with it but I'm really not which is your favorite song on the cell list favorite song or?
Justin:favorite map. Favorite map fair list, favorite song or favorite map.
Marla:Favorite map. Fair enough, yeah, you're right. Favorite map.
Justin:Favorite map would have to be Not Ready to Die. Yeah, easily, that was not some. I don't want to say the cornerstone, because I feel like the cornerstone was Madhouse. It's that one. I knew from the get-go Like this is going to be the finale. I'm going to redo that one Because there was no way I couldn't. But with Not Ready to Die and just that solo, I was like, oh man, this is going to be the craziest thing I've ever put together and I'm going to have so much fun with it. And I did, and it was.
Marla:So when you went in to map that, do you just start at the very beginning of the song or did you go to that favorite part that you wanted and then map that and then come back? What was that for you?
Justin:Not Ready to Die. You want it and then map that and then come back. What was that? For you? Not ready to die got a very special treatment. Um, when I first started mapping, I would write down all of my patterns by hand and then I would somehow transfer them into our mapping tools. And so what I did for Not Ready to Die is I had these big post-it note papers. I stuck them up on the wall, took a marker and I wrote every single measure down, every single lyric to every single beat, and I put up down diagonal whatever, and I would draw lines to tie things together. It looked like sheet music by the time I was done with it, but it was a complete mess and I looked at it and I was like I can't read most of this, but we're just going to have to figure it out.
Julia:Makes me think of that gif with the guy with the post-it notes, and the lines are going everywhere.
Justin:That's where my brain went it looks like a detective board with all the strings and stuff. It was such a mess and I was like what did I even do here? But yeah, I had to go back to the beginning of everything that I had ever known and say what do I want this workout to look like, and what do I want this song in particular to look like? And the funny thing is I didn't really have to do much for the solo. That was like the one thing I don't think I wrote down, because I knew what it looked like in my head already as soon as I heard the song and I'd known the song for years. But as soon as I heard it in that context I was like, well, it's obvious, there's only one thing that can be done for this solo. It was the everything else that was particularly difficult. I'll tell you that, um, funnily enough, that song has two easter eggs in it, two, two very specific Easter eggs in it that only I would get.
Marla:And when you say Easter eggs, you're not talking about what Julie and I call joy balls. You're talking about real gamer Easter eggs where you hid something in there that only you would know or people who understand. Yeah, have to figure it out. Yeah, have to figure it out.
Justin:Is that what you're saying? Yeah, so I mean, that's a bit tricky. One of the Easter eggs in that song has to do with the environment itself. I had the environment picked specifically for that song to relate to the Easter egg. For that song to relate to the Easter egg, then the second one does have to relate to the actual Easter egg, or Joy Ball, if you want to call it that. He said Joy Ball.
Julia:He said Joy Ball.
Marla:Everybody. He said Joy Ball, he said Joy Ball.
Justin:It does have to do with that, but they all kind of tie together. Yeah, and I will do a very quick explanation for that. That also has to do with the video games, but one of the other games that has influenced a lot of my childhood was the Call of Duty Zombies series, particularly Call of Duty Black Ops 1. And if you know anything about the Call of Duty Black Ops series, particularly Call of Duty Black Ops 1. And if you know anything about the Call of Duty Black Ops series, their main color palette is orange and black. So the Easter eggs that you see in that song that aren't the bats, are orange. So that has to relate to that specifically.
Justin:The second one is that this song was written for one of the maps in Call of Duty Zombies and in that map you are in frozen Siberian tundra, wasteland. You do a specific Easter egg inside of the game and then the song will play. So I related the environment to the song for that specifically, because I like to tell little jokes to myself. Nobody's going to get this but me. But I know that's all I care about.
Marla:I hope there are some fans of that game listening and now they'll go play this workout and be like, oh my God, I see it. It would be cool if they would have picked it up before that. I just haven't said anything.
Justin:That's such a tricky one. You would have to literally be inside of my head to really kind of put that cognizance together. It's definitely not like the Blackpink one. That one's pretty obvious, I think.
Marla:Julia, she did not think that was obvious. We were in a party one day and when it connected for her. She was like oh for Blackpink. Oh I just realized this. It was great. I wish I had recorded it Sorry, yeah.
Julia:It was not one of my finest moments.
Justin:That's okay. I do a lot of really small Easter eggs.
Julia:I feel like that was probably not small, but it was like I mean yeah, a little.
Justin:I feel like that one was pretty obvious. But I mean, if you don't know who the artist is, then maybe not. But I feel like that was like a as I remember mapping that song and putting the Easter eggs in. I think I was going to do something else for a moment. I was like wait a minute, what am I doing? It was so easy.
Marla:So were you able to pick which song went where for this list, because it's done really well, like the mapping.
Justin:That was tricky. That was very tricky because I didn't map them in order at all. Um so, but the the song order was very specific. Um, it's like the dying of the dead had to go first because it had the right amount of drama, the right amount of crazy, um, and I wanted that to be the opener, for sure. And then there's a bit of a small narrative between the song titles and the lyrics. If you're kind of paying attention and making a lot of leaps of logic that pretty much only I would understand, again, you can kind of see what's going on there. Pretty much only I would understand. Again, you can kind of see what's going on there. But it's this whole idea of like battling this monster and trying to save Mark and everything. That concept comes back and so you have things like my Curse and Not Ready to Die and Holy Wars. It's all this kind of like idea of like an internal struggle, conflict kind of thing, and that's like the the monster, essentially so yeah, mark says some pretty funny things, like in the beginning.
Julia:He's like the sick, oh, you know they're. They're saying uh, not not ready to die or bring out your dead. And mark's like bring out your dead, that's great and then and I think it's duality. He's like why are they whispering?
Justin:he just has those little things in there that make you laugh, get you through.
Julia:And speaking of duality, one of my favorite things but through the whole thing, but especially duality are the triangles that come at you backwards. And I remember the first day when it came out obviously again marlin, I weren't able to play it, um, but we were hearing people say I think there were backwards triangles, but I don't really know. They happen so fast. But oh, that is one of my absolute favorite things of that song. So what inspired you to make all of the cool, I guess, visual effects?
Justin:of the triangles that are in most of the songs yeah, I mean there's a bit of narrative inspiration for a few of those, the backwards triangles in particular. That was actually an idea from asia, one of the other choreographers. Um, I was on a call with her, kind of just going over the map and the creation process, and we got into a discussion about doing some creative things and she had mentioned some backwards triangles that she had done at one point, but she took out for whatever reason. I asked her if I could use them. She said go for it. So I threw them in there and, funnily enough, I think the original mapping of Duality was also done by her. So it's kind of like paying homage to her and her mapping as well.
Justin:So yeah.
Julia:That's cool. Well, thank you Asia. Yeah, definitely.
Justin:Shout out to Asia for sure. Then the weird spinny, rotatey triangles in a different world than Madhouse, which has gotten a lot of chatter about. Um, those were incepted by dave, who's another one of our choreographers, and he came up with this a long time ago. I don't think he had ever had a chance to put them into a map. But I was like how do you do those? Because I need to know right now. So he showed me how to do those and I made some adjustments and some tweaks for myself to kind of make them fit with, like, different worlds. You have them going into a different lane, so you got to like how to do the swooping thing. Um, madhouse is just kind of straightforward and you just, yeah, but yeah, I had him show me how to do those. And then the weird ones and not ready to die I don't really have a name for those.
Marla:That's how we summoned you here to the podcast. Yeah, the summoning triangles.
Justin:Those ones were all me. Those are pretty easy actually. I just put a triangle down and then put another one down and I flipped it and that was it. Okay, yeah, but I wanted something that would be exciting and also be like huh, yeah, that's exactly what it does.
Julia:Yeah, we've seen visual triangles like that. Yeah, master of puppets, for sure.
Justin:Yeah, the halloween workout, definitely, um. But yeah, I think different world was a bit of a special case because I wanted to be like traveling through like a portal or something which would tie into like the title and everything. And you're on spheria too. So there was like a a bit of a tie-in with the, the overall feel of how, like ethereal, the mapping goes with that one up until the fun parts. But yeah, that was the whole thing for that and a lot of it was just like you have these spaces which are very necessary to catch your breath and reacclimate yourself and I was like well I don't want you to be too comfortable.
Justin:So here's a weird triangle. Figure it out. No jumping, please. Yeah, don't jump, but just you know, experience it. Stay on your toes, basically.
Marla:Madhouse is a perfect example of how you are able to give us super flowy movement but also like those hardcore drum rolls where you're just not stopping. It's a really cool um juxtaposition that you can present us as the users that you wouldn't expect to be in a madhouse. I mean, there's just these flowy, flowy, chill movements mixed in with hardcore. I love that about this workout yeah, absolutely.
Marla:It's really good. Good, and the way the song list is, it's like you get a really complex, hard one, then a little bit more chillish, then hard, then hard, then chill, right before you just kill us with holy wars yeah, holy wars is something else it is something else. It is, that's another journey I've gone on.
Julia:I didn't't like that one. I think I will not partial anything on this or skip, but maybe if skip came out sooner, I may would have skipped Holy Wars in the beginning.
Justin:I know it's okay.
Julia:Now.
Justin:I don't blame you. I don't blame you I mean it just.
Julia:I think in my mind it was just when something is hard and I feel like I can't master it, I'm like, oh, it's a frustrating feeling, but then to keep going back in, since I can't skip or I can't, that's something I've done to myself and I can't partial, I'm like I have to master this. And now I'm like, on that, I want to get 100%. On that song, it's one that I haven't hit all the targets on and I'm so close. So now I just it's like I've taken it in and I go on the journey with the song and I feel the music and it wasn't something that was in my wheelhouse, that song. It was like I don't want to listen to this, but now, oh, okay, we can add that one to our playlist. Now let's do it in the car.
Marla:So well, the first time I had played this song was in the high flow stone into sand, which I'm going to assume is yours, because the styles are the same and I mean it's like preparing you for this madhouse, for the final monster, but it's a different map. I mean there are some parts that are the same, like you have the spin cycle section that appears in both, but the monster is way more intense. Is way more intense.
Justin:Yeah, I mean the one in the high flow was caught in a mosh and a few other tracks.
Justin:raining blood was in that one too, that's funny, um, I mean, the knee strikes make it different for sure. Um, and typically speaking, when I map a pros only, and especially a madhouse, if there's something that came before it, it's usually I'll look at it, like if there's a map prior I'll look at it, but nine times out of ten I'm not keeping it. Um, this one, because holy wars was already like basically a pros to begin with in that high um I I could keep a lot of that, and it was already my mapping too. So I kind of knew the intention within the direction I knew I could take it.
Justin:I'll tell you, though, taking those new strikes out and seeing how much open space I had, I was like, well, we could just absolutely just rip this whole thing in all of these places. So I mean, I threw in a lot of, I quadrupled the target density in places where I had new strikes originally. So that definitely makes a considerable difference, and the solo there also is just absolutely wild. But it's a fun time, and that was a Guitar Hero 6 song too. So obviously I have some impetus to make that one a lot better than I would normally do.
Julia:There's some places in Holy Wars where your right arm is doing something different than your left arm and sometimes I'm yelling at my left arm she yells.
Marla:Her and our friend Erin yell at the same spot. They're like come on arm, keep going, keep going, let's go.
Marla:It's like a whole pep talk situation going on for the arm yes because we play this workout a lot in parties yeah groups of people and I just love hearing everyone experience this workout particularly, and we're always like if you need us to pause, let us know. We'll wait for you at the beginning of the next song. But for the most part everyone is happy to like go through, but usually right before Holy Wars we pause.
Justin:Yeah.
Marla:Because we all know it's going down.
Justin:It's a good place. It's going to take us down.
Julia:One because, since it's so long, you get your little dots of death a yellow bar of death sometime are the dots now, and so we want to all be together, so we pause for that, but it's really because we just need some water and we need to eat for a minute yeah, I do too.
Justin:Typically it's very difficult for me to go one to the next with no problem so I have a lot of favorites like julia.
Marla:I wouldn't. I would be very sad if any of the songs were removed in here I think it flows beautifully, the, just the whole, each song, the one after it is placed. But I gotta tell you my curse this echoes back to forget Okay. And when I said that Out of the Black had a lot of feeling and a lot of emotion, my curse has that too. That song naturally has a ton of emotion in it.
Marla:And I feel like you capture that emotion perfectly in my Curse with the movements. Man, I have a lot to say about that workout. I'm always telling people go check out my Curse. It's so good and you have the complexity of the three portals and targets coming from you. It's just. It's beautiful to visually, but it's also beautiful to move that way and to feel the lyrics and the music with the movements that you put in the song. And, yeah, I really like. I really like that one.
Julia:So, thank you, and yes, this one is my favorite, my top favorite workout and the whole supernatural library is this workout right?
Marla:here.
Julia:So thank you, yeah, thank you very much so how did you feel like when this one was released? What were your feelings Like knowing it was the last Tired Worried about how ever Did you say tired yes?
Justin:I'm sorry, worried about how people would feel like in the circle of death.
Julia:Is that what it's called the?
Justin:circle of hate.
Julia:The circle of hate, sorry, I mean how I mean what were your thoughts Were you probably a lot of things going on on this one.
Justin:Jeez man. Well, I mean definitely tired. I was exhausted Because, like I had probably spent maybe four weeks total on just making tweaks to that set which is not typical, set which is not typical, but I mean I was relieved one that this whole saga has finally ended.
Julia:Was Mark relieved too, I'm sure right.
Justin:I bet he is. I bet he is more than happy that it's started over with. Actually, I got to talk to him quite a bit during the conception and the execution of the mapping for this and I remember asking him one afternoon, like, do you ever feel like I'm doing too much? And he said yes, yes, you do way too much all the time, but that's okay it's like honest but also encouraging it.
Justin:I like mark yeah, that's perfect he was he is definitely the best person for this because he has the experience already of dealing with my nonsense, but also like the way he tackles um the positivity and letting go of the scores and the accuracy, which I know is not the best thing to do if you're going for 100 hearing. That must be really troublesome.
Marla:It is very troublesome because I don't mute the coaches. I'm not in the percentage of people who mute coaches. So even though I've played return to the madhouse almost a hundred times, I have never muted Mark but once, and it was the time right before I hit a hundred percent on that, a hundred percent accuracy, and I would get frustrated. And this is what my partner, Chris he, when he kicked me off of the headset that night, is because I was yelling at Mark because he said I.
Justin:I um I missed.
Marla:I hit a target wonky, it was a form issue. It bonked and Mark said immediately after this it's not about perfection and I cursed him out so bad. I said lots of really loud words. I said it is about perfection. And that's when Chris came in he said put the headset down right now. No more madhouses for you tonight. I was like whoa, it is a thing. So yeah, when you're going after 100% accuracy, hearing Mark tell you that is not the greatest, but it is much needed all the time especially for people who are scared or nervous to do madhouses.
Marla:I can totally get that. I try and put myself in their shoes, like when I first did the madhouses and hearing Mark's coaching is what got me through it.
Julia:So, yeah. He did a good job, oh yeah.
Marla:Fantastic job.
Justin:And hearing Mark's coaching is what got me through it.
Julia:He did a good job. He carried us through and, like I said, he takes, unless people know who you are, that you're the Lord of the Madhouse and can get mad at you and the community he takes the brunt of a lot of people's frustration about them.
Marla:It makes me laugh when I see people make posts and tag Mark Mark, what did you do? And then I look down at the workout and it's a madhouse and I it's either that one or the Metallica, you know.
Justin:Yeah, it's usually one of those two. It's so funny.
Julia:Well, we asked you if you hid any Easter eggs in any of the songs in any of the Mad Houses. But I think you answered. I guess you've answered most of those. Were there any others? That you can think of. Yeah, like true Easter eggs, not Joy Balls.
Justin:Kind of I guess the Circle of hate and ravenous kind of counts as an easter egg and I'm very happy that Mark called it that in the voiceover because we talked about it prior.
Justin:But ravenous is one of the songs on Guitar Hero 6 and ravenous is fun to me because it is a song that beat me relentlessly when I played that game um I would fail it constantly and I would have to go in and I would practice the parts that would get me the most, which is something I'm sure you both are very familiar with that song too yes, most definitely but in guitar hero when you go into practice mode it it logs like all of the sections in a song with a name and the part of the song that would trip me up the most was called the circle of hate.
Justin:There's four um parts of it. There's like circle of hate a, b, c and d and I told mark while I was mapping this I was like there's going to be a section in the song and I'm calling it the circle of hate. When you get to it you will understand why.
Julia:Because you will hate me.
Justin:But yeah, I was like I remember that it just literally seared into my brain because I spent probably like 50 hours on that section of that song alone and Guitar Hero and I was like, well, I'm going to make it a circle and I'm going to make you just drum roll the whole time. So good luck.
Marla:Love it, so good luck.
Julia:It is.
Marla:It is.
Marla:And it's funny because I started a little group. There's not many of us there's, I think, maybe 18 of us. After I got 100% on Return to the Madhouse, other people start whoa, you can do that, I want to try. So there's a little group of us. I started one and I named it 100% Accuracy Circle of Hate, because this whole process just that term Circle of Hate identified exactly what we're all going through, because it's like we love it but we hate it, but we love it and we got to keep going. But the circle of hate in that part of the song is one of my favorites and you got to step, you got to move your feet that's what I always tell people.
Marla:But spinning in general turning spinning is my favorite thing in supernatural so that the fact that you added drum rolls with it just makes it so fun, and I anticipate it I get really giddy right before it happens I'm always like oh, here it comes, here it comes, it's like the scared, excited. Yeah, it is scared, excited, for sure, for sure. Well, it's.
Justin:It's really fun too, because I mean that that's like the evolution of the mapping not being able to do it in black metal, but you finally get it. You get it even more so because it went 360 with that one, whereas black metal was only going to go 180. We took the knob off with it.
Julia:That's really cool. So which one of the four mad Houses do you play the most?
Justin:Oh God, Play the most. I don't think I've played Return. No, no, no, not Return. I don't think I've played Welcome in a long time. You should.
Julia:We played it not long ago, one day this week, yeah.
Justin:I might look at it again. It's hard for me to go back.
Julia:You know, obviously would you rate them in the order they're in. That's how I would rate them no, no, no, no, no, no no no, no, no, Well, okay.
Justin:Well, I guess it depends on what you mean by that Right the monster is first for sure, then return, then forget.
Justin:I actually don't know if I like Welcome or Forget more. That's tough. That's tough Because I really love Tornado of Souls. I really love it. It's not as good as I think it could be, but it was pretty good for my first attempt. I'll say that. But that Out of the Black is just fantastic. That's tough. I think I'll go in number order. We can keep the podcast going because I can sit on that for hours.
Julia:We can sit on a lot of things for hours.
Marla:That's hilarious. Yeah, I'm glad you asked that, Julie, because I was going to ask. Well, I kind of know the answer because I stalked your profile in the community. I was gonna ask do you play supernatural in your spare time? Um, I have noticed you. You put up, I follow you and you put up a lot of points.
Justin:Um, it seems like you do enjoy it yeah, I think I'm just under 350 000 points right now, so that's a big accomplishment, working really hard. It's a small fish compared to youtube, but yeah it's something it is something.
Marla:It's a big deal, I think so. So you work all day, but then you actually go in and play maps.
Justin:I think that's really neat that is really cool, yeah, yeah, there was a a period of time when I was kind of still getting acclimated that I would go in and I would play probably like two workouts right before I started mapping, and I would take notes.
Justin:I would go look at maps that I really liked, see what kind of patterns worked, see if I could take some of those ideas and repurpose them for my own things, kind of make them more comfortable for me, and that has inspired a lot of my own personal creativity going forward, and I do a lot of that now as well.
Justin:Um, although I don't do it before I work unless it's really really relevant um, what I'll usually do is, if I know what I'm going to be working on the next week, I'll try to do maps the weekend prior so I kind of have an idea of them in my head. Um, usually within the same genre, same intensity, same modality, and then, um, I'll have something to kind of work off of for that week with the right calibration in mind, the right movements in mind, and I can kind of go from there. So I do play quite a bit. Um, a lot of times it is my own stuff, so I can can kind of go back, re-familiarize myself with the styles, the ways that I would interact with movements with this genre, but sometimes, if I don't have a good backlog for those kinds of things, especially like country workouts, which I still don't have a lot of you shouldn't make any of them.
Julia:Yeah, it's fine, just move on Next next.
Marla:I feel like it's important for me to do so, just so I can have the knowledge but, yeah, country's not my favorite either, so I will play a country workout if you make a hoedown prose you make a hoedown, it's like like a madhouse, hoedown, but I don't know I I wouldn't even know where to begin to look for a setlist. Country music doesn't lend to that kind of movement.
Justin:I don't know, that would be tricky and I've thought about it. I mean, I have tons of ideas for prose, just like written down somewhere. But yeah, hoedown would be difficult for sure. I already am not a fan of the genre, so having to acclimate myself to that and listen to those songs just over and over and over again, I'd be like oh, the code.
Julia:It would push you out of your comfort zone for sure. It would be very interesting to see what kind of things you could create and what would come out of that. But I mean playing. What I know is yours the Mad Houses would come. Come out of that. But I mean playing. What I know is yours the madhouses and such I, I don't.
Justin:I can't even imagine what something like that would be. Yeah, me either, not right now, at least my brain is just like explode.
Marla:I'm like how would you even do? Why did I just say that? I will not don't make't make that. No, no, no.
Justin:We will see. I will definitely get to it eventually, because I want to try to do a prose in every genre.
Marla:That would be really cool.
Julia:That would be really cool, that would be so when you find out that Marla and I are like your biggest fans.
Justin:Okay, my cheeks are hurting because I've smiled through this whole thing.
Julia:This is biggest fans. Okay, my cheeks are hurting because I've smiled through this whole thing. This is very surreal that you're even here, right? So is that shocking to you? Like you know, obviously we're.
Justin:You know, middle-aged type situation you know we're not saying our age or anything but we like the madhouse, the extreme pros here's thing. Here's the thing about that. So, first off, you guys like everything I've posted, so no, I'm well aware of your existence. Second, I've seen all of your podcast episodes, so I'm also very aware of how much you enjoy the Madhouse. You can't go an episode without saying it which is very flattering.
Justin:Thank you, and third, I mean I've been in the community enough. I haven't really been able to say a lot of things in the community, but I've been in the community enough to know who you both are and I've seen how much you guys post about the Mad Houses and just in general about workouts that I've done or at least had a hand in, and you tend to have very positive things to say about the stuff that I put out. So I'm like, okay, so they are either stalking me or they just really enjoy my work. Both.
Justin:We're not stalkers so, yeah, it doesn't really surprise me that you guys are um big fans of what I do at supernatural, and it's very flattering and heartwarming to know that the work that I do does have a place within the supernatural community at whole, but also just like there are like super fans of the stuff that I do like that's really cool, um, because I, of course, I make the maps for you guys, not you specifically, but For the users, for the community as a whole.
Justin:So having that come off and be welcomed and cherished in such a gratifying way, it's really nice, it's nice to hear, it's nice to see, and it inspires me to do more and kind of keep doing what I'm doing best.
Marla:Um, because there will always be people for it, if you guys are any indication of that lots of people and I will say no, you, you made return to the madhouse for me, for me and my brain. That is what I think it is, my workout. No, we appreciate you and I know the rest of the community. There's a big part of us that really want to hear from the choreographers.
Justin:We hear from the coaches and we love them.
Marla:Of course, they have a huge fan base, but for some of us us it's the choreographers who get us stars. We're like, we want to hear about you guys we want to talk, workouts with you guys, movements with you guys. What was your inspiration? Um, I can only imagine the amount of questions that everyone in the community would have for you guys, and the fact that we get to speak Madhouse with you today is just mind-blowing. For both Julia and I, it's a huge, huge deal.
Julia:Thank you for coming and hanging out with us. We appreciate the time.
Justin:I appreciate you reaching out. This has been fantastic. I've definitely been trying to be more active and social with the community as well, Because I think there's a lot to be gained just from having more interaction with the choreographers so we can build a connection but also help where we can and point you guys in the right direction Making sure you're doing triangles properly and whatnot. Going through your triangle training, as you like to put it.
Julia:Just don't watch my side-by-sides.
Julia:Okay, that's scary to know, but you know, and it'll be exciting to know what the future brings. I mean, you're known now as the Lord of the Madhouse, but you know who knows in the future, I mean what's to come and what series may come out. And you know it's crazy. I guess, probably to you that people are excited for the Madhouse and they want more and they're probably begging for more. But it'll be exciting to know. And I mean you probably already know, I'm sure you're already working on future things. So I know you probably can't say anything.
Julia:We should stare him down and try to figure it out. I know what? Can you tell us?
Marla:now Right, exactly what are you working on.
Justin:We'll be patient and wait.
Julia:We cannot we can't wait to see what might come next. So every episode, since you watch us and you know we do weekly workout suggestion and we do weekly workout suggestion and to put you on the spot.
Justin:We're just going to have you, you know maybe not a madhouse, but something else.
Julia:You've done that. Maybe other people don't know.
Justin:That seems hardly fair.
Julia:I can't plug my own madhouses. I mean, hey, if that's what you want tell them to go play them all in order.
Justin:No, no, no, definitely not, I wouldn't even do that. Let me think If there was one that relates the best to the Madhouse that isn't a pros only. I definitely want to make that clear. The best training I think for the Madhouse right now would be the Metallica pros only. I definitely want to make that clear, because the best training I think for the meadows right now would be the metallica pros only. But outside of that I think the best training would be stone into sand, high flow with mark, with the enter sandman, cotton mosh raining blood. Holy wars, was there another one?
Julia:No, it's a long workout, let's go. Only four songs yeah, that's a good one.
Marla:Cotton Amash.
Justin:Yeah, that's a great one.
Marla:Cotton Amash. Oh man, it sits right next to Sudden Death for me on this I love that map. I love that map. It's so good.
Justin:From Stone into.
Marla:Sand because there's another version, but it's the Stone in the Sand version. That is just so fun. I feel like I'm in a mosh pit dude, like you're taking this 40-year-old lady on a journey into a mosh pit.
Julia:Okay, now it's 40.
Marla:40,. Okay, you know, in her 40s.
Julia:In the 40s, we're in our 20s. Remember.
Marla:Oh yeah, I was 25. There we go, we're in our 20s, we are not.
Julia:We like to think that we are. You keep us in good shape.
Marla:Yeah, that's right you do, and our minds in good shape.
Marla:I try my best, our minds. So after you guys complete Stone Into Sand sand, don't forget to rate it. Look to the left after you get done with the workout card and you see your score, look to left and rate it the needful. If you liked the movements, if you liked the coaching, you know, do the thing, leave an email if you want and go from there. Because, um, I'm sure you guys I mean, there's got to be some sort of system. The rating system must mean something and that's why I keep telling people to use it, because it's not for us. We're not having the rating system. Show us workouts because we rated them good. So it has to be something on the back end and if you liked the workout, rate it, so they know.
Justin:If you didn't't. Please rate your workouts very important important to know I should make a shirt rate we.
Julia:I know we need all kinds of shirts but again, we're so honored to have you here on our podcast today. Thank you so much that you were able to take the time to hang out with us. It was fun and our audience. We're so glad that you guys stuck around.
Justin:This is a long episode but hopefully it doesn't feel that way because it feels like we've only been sitting here for like 30 minutes. Yeah, for sure.
Julia:But so glad that you guys are here too and watch us and support us, and we appreciate you all.
Marla:Yeah, thanks, guys. And don't forget the real joy and love of Supernatural can be found on the journey you go on.
Julia:Bye, bye, bye.